What Minutes Outdoors Can Do

Pam Lowe Cho 0:00

When you're outside, in just five to ten minutes, your heart rate slows, your nervous system calms, and the stress response softens. In 15 to 30 minutes outside, your cortisol level drops, your stress hormone drops, your blood pressure decreases, and your muscles relax. And in 30 to 60 minutes, your mood improves, your anxiety decreases, and your focus and clarity increases.

Meet Pam Cho And Her Work

Wendy Roop 0:28

Welcome back to Culture is an inside job. We have an amazing guest with us today. And Karen and Scott, I'm going to introduce her real quick if that's okay with you. So her name is Pam Cho, and she is the founder of Trek Global Executive Coaching, where she offers outdoor executive coaching and guided forest bathing walks to support well-being and renewal. With more than three decades of experience in senior corporate leadership and executive coaching, Pam brings both strategic insight and deep presence to her work with individuals and organizations, along with the plethora of other things that we're going to do talking about today. So welcome, Pam. Thank you. Great to be here. Yes, we are so excited to have you and me especially because Pam and I got to know each other, gosh, four or five years ago. Yeah. Um, you know how fast time goes. It's it's you know hard to keep track, but um, we were introduced um through a mutual person, and then uh I started having when I started my own business, I started having retreats for women. And part of that, I really wanted to have like an outdoor portion. Um and so I asked Pam if she wanted to be a part of that, and she so graciously said yes. And she came and led the women in a piece where we did an outdoor, uh, I'll I'll let her explain more, but an outdoor basically like a meditative walk and just meditation and just you know, really grounding ourselves, you know, with the um with nature around us and and just terrific feedback. She did an amazing job. So we're so happy you're here with us.

Pam Lowe Cho 2:23

Thank you.

Wendy Roop 2:24

Yeah. So I am just curious, just to kick us off, how in the world did you get to do to be doing this outdoor stuff, right? After coming out of corporate America and you know, executive coaching and and all of those things. So maybe just in a nutshell, kind of where your your your background, um, how it led to you where you are today?

Pam Lowe Cho 2:49

Sure.

From Zoom Burnout To Outdoor Coaching

Pam Lowe Cho 2:50

Well, my um my background is in corporate, uh, corporate communications. And then um in uh 2009, I started my own um executive coaching practice. So I've been doing executive coaching for 16 years. And during the pandemic, um I went into my guest bedroom and I coached um using Zoom, like a lot of us. And after about a year or so, um, one morning I was sitting out on my deck having coffee, which is how I start every morning. And um I realized I was just hitting a wall. And I thought, you know, I could feel some depression, I could feel some anxiety starting to seep in. And I thought I've got to find a better way to show up for my clients. And I remembered having gone out on uh what's called a forest bathing walk at the Cincinnati Nature Center, which was a two-hour slow guided meditative walk. And I just remember how great I felt at the end of that. So I thought, well, maybe my clients would like to go outdoors. And so I called a woman that I was coaching and I said, What do you think of instead of Zoom, if we meet up at the it was a Voice of America park and we walk around the lake to do our coaching session? And she said, That sounds wonderful. So um we met up there and she works for a Fortune 500 company doing IT security, so a lot of stress. And so we spent an hour walking around the lake um side by side, uh doing the coaching session, having our conversation. We stopped a couple times to sit on a bench and just watch the ducks. And um at the end of the walk, I asked her, I said, so so what did you think? And she said to me, I haven't felt this good in a year. And so I also knew that I hadn't felt that good in a year. So I decided to invite um a male client of mine, a plant manager and manufacturing plant, and I asked him, I said, What do you think if we go to a park? And let's just sit at a picnic table or we can walk at a nature trail. And he said, That sounds awesome. So we did, and um, the conversation that we had outdoors was so much deeper, the outcomes were so much better that with both of those clients, we never went back on Zoom. I met them each time for the coaching session outdoors. And now, three years later, a hundred percent of my coaching is done outdoors.

Forest Bathing Explained In Plain Words

Wendy Roop 5:29

Wow, amazing, amazing, amazing. I just okay.

Scott McGohan 5:34

So, Pam, earlier I heard this phrase, forest bathing. And my mind went a million places, which some of them we will not talk about. Yeah, I won't, I won't even go. Um but like unpack that that term for for me.

Pam Lowe Cho 5:54

Yeah, that's a really important question. So thank you for asking it, especially early on in this conversation. Um so uh forest bathing is the English translation of two words in Japanese, um, Shinrin Yoku. Shinrin is forest, yoku is bathing. And so this practice is about bathing in the healing and the restorative elements of nature, of the environment. So forest bathing or Shinrin Yoku started in Japan in the 1980s when healthcare costs started to go up, and they realized that a lot of the um of the health issues were were stress-related. And there were a lot of workers that had been used to working outside on the land, that with the development of technology were moving into urban centers, into cities, and were working in high-rises and sitting behind computers all day. So the country opened up all of the parks in Japan for two years, made them free, and encouraged workers to spend 10 to 15 minutes, either before, during, or after work, outdoors, ideally in one of the parks. And within just a couple of years, healthcare costs started to come back down. So researchers from around the world came into Japan to study what was happening to people's minds and bodies when they got outside. And that's what I love about this practice is that it's evidence-based. There's over a thousand research papers on the scientific impact of what happens to us when we step outside um to our minds and our bodies. So that's where Shinrin Yoku or Forest bathing comes from.

Scott McGohan 7:41

Wow, out of healthcare cost.

Pam Lowe Cho 7:44

Yeah.

Scott McGohan 7:44

You wouldn't, I mean, that that's the world I came from. I wouldn't have guessed that in a in a million, in a million years. Wow. Yeah. That's fascinating.

Pam Lowe Cho 7:56

It is fascinating. And you know, um, what's what's interesting is um I got to go to Japan. Uh, I'm certified through the ANFT, Association of Nature and Forest Therapy. And the founder and CEO of that organization took 21 forest therapy guides for the forest bathing guides over to Japan uh three years ago. And I was one of the fortunate 21 um forest bathing guides that got to go with him. And uh over there you find what are called um forest healing centers, and they're community centers in the forest where people can come in to see a doctor. The doctor writes a prescription for time outdoors, whether it's a walk on the trail there or they like bicycling, whatever it is, and they'll write a prescription for time outdoors before they write a prescription for medication. So if you come in with symptoms of depression, anxiety, they will recommend, say, three times a week walking outdoors for 30 minutes, and you come back in for a follow-up after they've handed you a physical prescription, and um, they're getting great, great results. And what's super exciting is that that uh is now coming to the US and in Cincinnati, University of Cincinnati Medical Center has launched a nature as medicine program and they are doing just that.

Karen Benoy Preston 9:25

Love

Nature Prescriptions And Global Proof

Karen Benoy Preston 9:26

that. Wow. I just want to kind of can you hear me? Yes, touch touch here on the inverse of this because what's so powerful here is we're talking about what's healing, but what's not being spoken here is what's actually creating disease. And you mentioned behind a computer all day within these four walls all day, being in stressful situations over and over and over again. And just to think that you know, we keep going thinking that's gonna solve our problems. But what you're actually saying, Pam, is stepping outside and and away from the four without you know, outside of the four walls and away from the computer and and back into nature is really what can be the most evidence-based of healing. Um thank you. Thank you for the work that you're doing. Thank you for your commitment to this, and thanks for bringing the idea here for us. Um I'm so inspired right now. I'm just kind of wanting to get up and go walk outside and have the rest of this conversation in some nature, right? Um I understand the power and and and the profound power of being in nature. I also believe that one thing that's we don't talk about enough is it's the the restorative piece of this is almost instant. Yeah. Like we we constantly find other things outside of us to heal us. But the one thing that we can give ourselves really that we you know it doesn't require any payment. It doesn't require any real effort. It's just be in nature, just to step outside and and and breathe some of that, you know, air that is such a gift and the and the whatever's going on, even if it's the the you know, I talk about if it's raining, that's God's love, right? I can't create that rain. I'm not blowing these clouds somewhere and and the and the trees and the birds are doing what they're doing because not as a result of me telling them what to do. Um so it's just something so incredibly grounding to be back into nature. So yeah, powerful. Thank you.

Scott McGohan 11:41

You know what's incredible, and then I'll get off the subject, but Japan has like national health care. And th they they believe largely in metabolic syndrome, which is really based on the fact of glucose, waste circumference, um, triglycerides, cholesterol, the five metrics. And so what they what they do is they actually will penalize companies if their workforce um is metabolic.

Pam Lowe Cho 12:18

I don't know.

Scott McGohan 12:19

So the employers lean into their workforce that drive those metrics down. So in America today, we spend about fifteen thousand dollars per person for health care. Japan spends five thousand seven hundred dollars per person. So as we talk about governments and maybe the shenanigans, but you talk about Japan and like their intentionality on on people and what that what that difference can make. Um that just is j incredible. And you know, way to go, Cincinnati.

Pam Lowe Cho 13:02

Yeah.

Scott McGohan 13:02

Um for leaning into that. You know, and part of me is like, we're way too lazy to try that. Just give me the pill, just give me the drug.

Pam Lowe Cho 13:13

Yeah. Well, it's really interesting, you know, when a physician in a white jacket hands you your prescription and you see on it, you know, three bicycle rides a week, and I want to see you for a follow-up in four weeks, you do it. You know. So, one other thing that I wanted to mention along the lines of what you were just saying, Scott, is that um last October I went to South Korea to attend the World Forum on Forest Therapy. And there were 350 people from 35 countries in attendance at that conference. And I stood in that lobby on day one during registration, and I had tears coming down my cheeks. And the reason for the tears was because it was so validating as to what I was doing, how I'm trying to bring people outside and understand the importance of it, that um it was one of the most transformative experiences that I've ever had. Uh being with 350 people for two days. We sat and listened to research. And the next three days, we visited their forest healing centers. South Korea pays for health insurance. And these healing centers, they spend $100 million. They're gorgeous. There's hotel rooms, there's outdoor trails with professional, full-time forest therapy guides for those people that can't do the trails there. There's indoor forest therapy, where it's like a large round yoga room with a bamboo floor, and it's a video of woods around you, and there's the sound of birds, and the, you know, the wind and the scent of pine. And um, they do this indoor forest therapy, and they're getting very similar results um as they are with the outdoor forest therapy. So it's part of their culture, you know. In in Asia, nature and the outdoors and trees and flowers are just part of their nature. So this comes naturally to them. But what I'm really excited about is how now this is coming to the United States. It's only been here for 10 or 12 years, and um uh it is growing so fast. I mean, my my practice is like triple, has tripled each year that I have been doing this to the point where I have to figure out how I'm gonna bring this to more people in a different way because there's not enough hours in the day for me to meet the demand of people that are asking me and organizations that are asking me to do this. So I'm really excited about it. And I love having a platform like your podcast to be talking about this and to help people understand that this is it's free. It's available to everybody. And it doesn't have to be a two-hour walk on a wooded trail. It can be stepping outside onto your porch for five minutes and just listening to the birds and feel the wind on your skin, look up at the sky. And the restoration from that is just amazing. I have to give you just one quick data point if I can, because I love talking about this. When you're outside, in just five to 10 minutes, your heart rate slows, your nervous system calms, and the stress response softens. In 15 to 30 minutes outside, your cortisol level drops, your stress hormone drops, your blood pressure decreases, and your muscles relax. And in 30 to 60 minutes, your mood improves, your anxiety decreases, and your focus and clarity increases.

Wendy Roop 17:04

Believe it. I believe it.

Scott McGohan 17:08

So I don't have to take a bath in the woods.

Pam Lowe Cho 17:12

No swimsuit or towel required. Oh God. Go ahead.

Better Strategy After A Nature Walk

Pam Lowe Cho 17:22

Well, nothing. I was just gonna give you one other um sort of example of how companies that I work with are using this practice. So I'll give you this um example of a company here in Cincinnati, a large corporation. Uh, I do executive coaching there, and the head of marketing called me and said, our CEO has asked me for a very important um project or plan that we have to turn around in three days. Will you come facilitate it for us? And I said, I will, with one condition that we go to the Cincinnati Nature Center. You give me an hour to take your team out for a forest bathing walk before we start the strategic planning, and we use one of the cabins or one of the lodges out there to do our work. And he said, Well, okay. So I took him out and we did the walk, and you could just see the change in people's faces and their bodies in that hour. And we came back into the room, we started the strategic planning, and you know, everybody was grounded and focused and relaxed. And we were scheduled to go from nine to four. We went from nine to two o'clock, and by two o'clock, we had this brilliant strategic plan. And the marketing team then spent the next couple of hours just hanging out, a couple of them walk, walk the trails. But I do believe that that hour of being outside and getting focused, relieving the stress at the start of the day, help them with an even better, stronger, faster outcome.

Karen Benoy Preston 19:08

Totally believe that. Tully, fully believe that. Oh, yeah. Being grounded, there's nothing greater than being grounded. And it doesn't take it doesn't require a lot, right? It's it's the intentionality of what you can give yourself that you know that it's there's nothing better to ground your feet. I don't I mean it's like a no-brainer, it's just a no-brainer.

Pam Lowe Cho 19:29

Yeah. You know, I tell um people that I take out on walks that there's a reason why we automatically feel better when we step outside. Man has been on this earth for tens of thousands of years. And it's only in the last 200 years, since the industrial revolution, that we have been working in high-rises, living in sealed up houses, and driving around in cars with tinted windows. Our bodies are designed to be outside. They're designed and they function at their best when they're outside. So um it's it's in it's in us, it's in our DNA, it's in our bones that our bodies react positively when we step outside. I tell people that when we step outside, it's like taking our bodies home.

Karen Benoy Preston 20:26

The irony to that.

Wendy Roop 20:28

Yeah.

Pam Lowe Cho 20:29

Yeah.

Why Our Bodies Need Outdoors

Wendy Roop 20:30

Um Pam, since we're, I really want people to understand, you know, just the importance and impact of this work and and nature in general. As silly as it might sound, a lot of people just don't realize that, right? So what I loved was when, you know, you and um Karen, you were mentioning this, so I want to go back to this. Um when Pam came to my first, it was my first retreat, by the way, too. And uh, so she was, I was like, I don't know how this is gonna go, but it was all good. Um but anyway, and we were talking about it, and she's like, rain or shine. She's like, because tell us about rain, like why you really appreciate it when it does rain.

Pam Lowe Cho 21:22

Thank you for that question because this is really important.

Rain As Renewal And Letting Yourself Get Wet

Pam Lowe Cho 21:28

The most uh impactful, magical, profound forest bathing walks I've done have been in the rain. And I do these walks rain or shine. Um, the only time I don't do it is if there's lightning or high winds or really strong rain. But I um encourage people not to bring an umbrella, bring a jacket with a hood. And um, for those people that don't have them, I have these clear ponchos that I give to everybody. And rain. Represents cleansing, renewal, restoration. I took a group of um COVID nurses from a hospital during the pandemic out on a walk. And I looked at those poor worn bodies and faces when they got out of their car in the parking lot. And I knew the last thing they wanted to do was walk in the rain. And it was raining. And so we all put our ponchos on. We started walking out. I had them put their faces up to the sky just to let the rain hit their faces. And you could just watch their shoulders drop. We've been taught that we don't want to get wet or we don't want to get our shoes wet. But you know what? Some of the most amazing experiences are when we take our shoes off and we go walk through a puddle or wet grass or we let our clothes get wet in the rain. And that's what I try to encourage people to do is to not only not be afraid of rain or inclement weather, but to embrace it and to lean into it and get out in it. Our bodies and our minds love that.

Karen Benoy Preston 23:17

Crave it.

Pam Lowe Cho 23:18

Crave it. Crave it. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Wendy Roop 23:22

I just have to tell you a cute little story really quick since we're talking about nature. So, you know, I have a granddaughter now, granddaughter and grandson, but my granddaughter's old enough to be running around, you know, outside. And so when she was at the house, um, we've only been at this place in September and we've got two acres back here now. And so I took her over to this tree that I love. Oh my gosh, it's such a beautiful tree. And I was like, like, say hi to the tree, you know. And I had her put her hand, and now when we go outside, she goes up and she puts her hand on the tree. And I'm just like, it's just I love, I just think it's so important to teach our young people that, our kids that, you know, that they like you said, Pam, they've got this gift right under their nose, you know, and we just again we're so caught up in the in the swirl that you know, we forget that. And and go ahead, Pam. No, you continue. I love that story.

Returning To Stillness And Childhood Wonder

Wendy Roop 24:21

I I well, I was just gonna say, speaking of the swirl, like what I love about I love lots of things about you, but one of the things I love about you is that you know, you're not, it's not like you've just lived nature your entire life, like, you know, you've been outside, like you were in corporate America, you know, and doing the thing. So what I'm curious about is like, did you always have an appreciation for nature um in the way that you do now? And what did you notice about yourself, you know, in corporate in comparison to now being on the outside of it and doing what you're doing now?

Pam Lowe Cho 25:07

Well, I think the reason that I'm able to be successful with my forest therapy, forest bathing practice is because of my work in corporate. Um, I also worked in the White House in the public affairs department, so I am no stranger to stress. And um, when I was young, I was very fortunate in that my parents took my two sisters and myself outside all the time. You know, we did vacations, camping, um, we canoed, we, you know, we were always outside playing, and my dad, my mom would teach us, you know, different bird sounds and how to identify birds. So that was in my childhood. Then I grow up and I get a job, and you know, for 15 years, all I think about is how I need to be productive and um, how I need to be successful, and how I need to look good and act good. And um and then I left corporate, started the executive coaching, and then the pandemic hit, and the silver lining for me and for my clients is that I then discovered this practice and the science of being outside. And I do believe that as we get older, we come back to who we really are. And I think that you know, my early childhood days, I'm I'm coming back to those days. I'm coming back to my love of being outside and allowing myself time to go outside to be still and to get on a nature trail and stop and look at the details of the leaf. Put my hands on the trunk of a tree, which is one of the most one of the fastest ways to relieve stress is to put two hands on the trunk of a tree. And um it's just it's life-changing. It's been life-changing for me. So yeah.

Karen Benoy Preston 27:19

I love what you just said there, Pam, regarding coming back to you know, that place that almost like that essence within us. It brings up another Japanese um framework, ikigai. Our life purpose. Yeah. And that we all walk toward what we think is what the world needs of us. And yet we continue to walk away from our true selves and all of that. And at some point in time when we can find ourselves again, that becoming home, coming back to that essence is life-changing. And to your point, we can get to that faster by just grounding ourselves in the presence of nature.

Pam Lowe Cho 28:09

You're exactly right. And I love the word still. You know, how often do we take the time to truly be still? And when we're still, and especially when we're still in nature, that's when our best answers to the questions appear. That's when we do our best thinking. Um, all of my ideas around what I have created with my coaching practice over the last 16 years, and I've done some weaves and waffles here and there, all of my ideas have come from being outside on the patio with a cup of coffee. You know, when you're outside and you have the infinity of the sky above you and the trees and such around you, um you think differently than if you have a eight-foot or ten-foot ceiling and you have walls around you, your brain works differently. It's your brain thinks more expansively when you're outside, more creatively. And um, you know, another thing I love about the practice.

Wendy Roop 29:18

Yeah. Scott, what's coming up for you around this? Because Scott has his own. I'm curious the connection with your, you know, your new business with one morning, you know, and what comes up with you around that. And right, as you reflect back to your days in corporate too. And what's coming up for you? And your love of nature.

Scott McGohan 29:41

Yeah. Well, you know, at first I was like, I don't want to I don't want to go outside and talk. You know, I'd rather be inside. And then mostly um it's probably more of it it's uh it's it's a vulnerable ask. Because I thought about it, you know, if Pam asked me to go outside and go for a walk, I'd be like, no, I don't know.

Karen Benoy Preston 30:13

Where are you taking me?

Scott McGohan 30:15

I would go I would sit I would sit in a room at Aileron and talk to Pam.

Karen Benoy Preston 30:21

Um and one with the clouds on the ceiling. Yeah.

Scott McGohan 30:25

Yeah. And I started to think about why it's because I would feel more prepared and safer in a room than outside, if that makes any sense. It does. And then there's then when she said, you know, it was when I was so then as you guys were talking, I was started I started to think about when I was happiest as a little kid. You know, and I made a I made a clubhouse out of out of out of firewood, you know, in a in a log pile in my backyard. And how much I loved my treehouse when I was a kid. And those are really, really fond memories of me and myself when I look when I liked myself and I appreciated who I was on the inside um was always outside. Um and so th that's that that's really interesting. Because being inside, I I guess what I'm when I'm thinking about it, being inside is just super safe. But when I think about one morning and I think the impact of mental health and where other people are, um I uh there's part of me that believes that people are really safe in their homes and they're really safe in their cars, and they're safe by turning on the music inside of their you know, listening in their cars and being just horrifically distracted because they don't want to be alone because they're t they're afraid to be alone. They're afraid of the silence. You know, they're they're afraid of that. And when you will let that come into your life, like really scary stuff comes in, right? And but really cool stuff can come in your life too, if if you accept it. So that was a long answer, probably not a very clear one, but that's my answer, and I'm sticking to it.

Wendy Roop 32:24

I love your answer. Powerful, mm-hmm. Yeah, and how do

Making Outdoor Sessions Feel Safe

Wendy Roop 32:29

you help? Yeah, how how do you help people? Because I'm sure he's not the only one or thinking about other people, right? Feeling that way. So, how do you help them to understand or to allow themselves to step into this different environment?

Pam Lowe Cho 32:46

Mm-hmm. So um safety and trust is really paramount with what I do. And um, not everybody grew up um spending time outside. So, for some people, nature and walking on a forest trail can get really scary. I had one woman, I was walking on a trail and she was very nervous. And I said, I, and we were walking single file on the trail, and I said, I want you to be right behind me, and you can hang on to the back of my jacket at any time. And in the beginning, she was hanging on to my jacket, and by the end of it, she was much more relaxed and she actually enjoyed the experience. But what I do with my group force therapy walks, and usually it's 10 to 12 people, is that I send an email beforehand explaining um what forest bathing is, what we're gonna be doing, and how to prepare for it, that it's flat trails, um, and you know, it's gonna be an easy, easy path. So I get people prepared beforehand. And in some instances, I even send photographs of the trail that we're gonna be on so they can start to visualize where they're gonna be. And then um, for the one-on-one coaching sessions, you know, I'll ask them, are you more comfortable sitting at a picnic table? Would you like to walk, you know, slowly side by side on a trail? Is there a trail that you've been on before? And again, I get them prepared for that, for that time outside. What's most interesting about conducting a coaching session, walking outside slowly, side by side, is that it um it helps to take out the I'm the coach and here's the client, and and it helps to sort of equalize things. And because we're not looking eye to eye, I think my clients relax more because they're just looking at the nature around them and they're not having to look at me when they answer a question. So, you know, I would encourage you to try it sometime um to see how it goes. And I think you'd be pleasantly surprised. And your client would also be surprised at how much they enjoy it.

Wendy Roop 35:06

Beautiful.

Hospitals Veterans And A Bigger Vision

Pam Lowe Cho 35:09

Yeah. So can I share a couple other things anything you might be interested in? Okay. So um when I first started doing this three years ago, uh I had different park districts and nature preserves that were contacting me asking me to do forest bathing walks for their members or for the for the community. And so they advertised them and did all the registration. I show up and do the forest bathing walk. I get paid. And then I always send everybody a uh forest therapy resource sheet at the end of my forest bathing walks, and it has links to, you know, books and podcasts and such on forest bathing for people that want to learn more. So that's what my first year, year and a half looked like. And then what happened what's happened is that in those walks, there are people in those groups that work for a company or work for a hospital that they'll say, oh, you know, I think my team or my department would really enjoy that. And so what's happened and where I am now, and this is what I'm kind of trying to manage myself, is that I'm working with three different hospital systems here in Cincinnati. One hospital system working with their staff, taking staff, physicians, medical technicians on forest bathing walks, um, some are before work from 7 to 8:30 a.m., and some are after work. Um, another one, uh, the VA hospital here. There's a woman that runs this amazing um wellness program at the VA Hospital for Veterans, and she happened to be in one of my um one of my walks, and she came up to me afterwards and said, you know, I loved this, and I think our veterans would really benefit from this time outdoors. You know, so I'm doing my first walk for them in in two weeks. And then the third hospital system, uh, again, I was doing a walk, and a young woman came up to me, bald, and she said, This has been wonderful. And I'm um currently going through chemo for cancer, and we have a group of women and we do things together. And I think everybody would really enjoy a walk outdoors to help relieve some of the stress. And so I'm doing force bathing walks for oncology for cancer patients. Um, so you know, my dream and kind of my vision of what I'm looking to find and create is uh force therapy, uh, nature healing center, where people come to the center for outdoor um and indoor force therapy. Um, you know, I've taken some people from uh retirement homes out. This this makes me tear up. Um people from um retirement homes that I took out to the Cincinnati Nature Center and you know, put their wheelchairs around the lake. And you know, these people grew up on farms. I mean they um that's what they love most is being outside. And the impact of that was so incredible. And I've felt like it was such a gift to them. And you know, I want to be able to do more of that. And so if I could have a place that was designed to accommodate cancer patients, you know, people in um retirement homes, veterans, that's my that's my ideal, and that's what I'm trying to figure out. So that's my big audacious goal right there.

Wendy Roop 39:16

Thank you for sharing that with us and for the our listeners that are listening to this too. Just, you know, what a gift to someone who's listening to us, and they're I'm sure cheering you on too because of how they know they know what an impact that could make. So that's beautiful, Pam. I love that. Thank you.

Pam Lowe Cho 39:37

Thank you.

Wendy Roop 39:38

Karen and Scott, anything?

Scott McGohan 39:42

I just would have never guessed. I don't know, there's just a lot of things, you know, that you know, that help people that we're looking that we're looking at. And we live in a world that's I mean, I don't know, we always we're searching. And it actually is as destructive and as crazy as this world is. I I think we live in a in a really interesting time where hope is I think it's a lot closer than what most people think. And and I think I think there's a lot of courage out there, I think there's a lot of hope out there, I think there's a lot, I think there's a lot more humility out there. Um and I think there's um I think there's just a lot of love that's available. And um, you know, and in inside of books and different things, but I wouldn't have ever imagined that nature, you know, would have done something like that. But the more you talk, that's like um like um I'm sold. You know, I like our our son, my our son is on, you know, and he's handling this recording, and he's has his beautiful, beautiful son named Patrick. And he loves Miss Rachel, right? So he watches it on Netflix. And but he'll go to the window and he'll look outside. And he waves to birds, like he just waves to him. You know, he'll wave to him, and and you know, I watch his eyes, and he's got the most beautiful eyes. And I'll I'll look at him, look outside, and like, what is he looking at? Like, what is he and and I just look outside, right? I just look outside, like, what's going on out there? Are there golfers out there? You know, it's like what like whatever. But the curiosity of really young, like young eyes outside. Um, it's really interesting to think about that and to carry yourself back because just that curiosity and wonder that we had when we were younger. Yeah. We we just we we went to far away places when we when we went outside. I had this um I I grew up and went to Miyamsburg, and then when we moved to West Kurt and we had this we had this uh oh, it was a pathway between two streets, and there was like uh there was a creek and then there was like brush that grew over this creek, and there was two streets on both sides. And we played in there for for like all summer long. We played and we played all kinds of stuff in there, and then the other day I was driving, I'm like, I'm gonna go drive back to like my old my old houses that I grew up in, and I drove by and this creek's only like it's only like eight feet wide, right? And these bushes are only like four feet tall. Yeah, but when I was little, it was like a jungle, it was gigantic, it was huge. And as a kid, I didn't think anyone ever saw us in there. Does that make sense?

Pam Lowe Cho 42:47

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we all have those places, yeah.

Scott McGohan 42:52

Uh-huh. Yeah, it was really, it was it was really kind of cool to go back and and look at that and thought, wow, like I really thought that was like a different part of the world, and it wasn't.

Biophilic Design And Fractals That Calm

Pam Lowe Cho 43:05

You know, there's a um a practice called uh biophilic design, which is uh the art of doing interior design using nature-based materials and colors and textures. And a year or so ago, I was at a um, I was at a reception and I met this woman who told me she was a biophilic interior designer. And I said to her, You've you've got to come to my home and help me use this biophilic design in my home. So you can probably see behind me um some of my plants in here. But um, so she came in and I love the space that she designed. It's very relaxing and soothing. And I loved it so much that I'm in the process of getting my certification in biophilic design. And the reason. The reason I'm doing it is because I want to offer, like the hospitals that I'm working with, I want to be able to create spaces where they can go either inside the hospital or right outside the hospital and create like a sensory herb garden and encourage staff and families and patients to spend a little bit of time to give them these, you know, respite places. So I'm bringing this up because it's so important to have a live plant somewhere in your home. I have them in all rooms in my home. When we go to take care of a plant, if we're watering it, if we're, you know, uh taking off a dead leaf, when we're tending to a plant, we automatically get this little hit of um serotonin that feel good in our in our no, is that right? Cortisol. No, serotonin. I was right. Serotonin. Um yeah, thank you. That feel good um in your brain, uh, just from tending to tending to a plant. If you look at a um like the back of a leaf, you'll see what's called a fractal in nature. And a fractal in nature is a recurring pattern in nature. So, you know, those beautiful veins on the back of the front of a leaf, that's called a fractal in nature. And when your eyes land on that, within milliseconds, your eyes and your brain start to relax. So on my desk, I have an old oak leaf, I have a pine cone, and I have a Potoski stone because they have this recurring pattern. So when I'm working on my computer, if I need a quick break, I will simply glance at one of those fractals in nature. A friend of mine here in Cincinnati works for a carpet company. And three years ago, they released a line of carpet called Fractals in Nature. And the carpet has these patterns in it, and they're installing it at the entrances of schools and hospitals so that when a patient walks into a hospital and their eyes land on that carpet, it starts to relax their nervous system. Or when a school child walks into the school again, when their eyes land on that without their even knowing it, their bodies start to relax. So this fractal in nature and nature-related colors and such, you're gonna see, and I'm seeing more and more hospitals and schools, dental offices using um artwork and photography that features nature because of the way it calms our bodies. If you put two patients that have had this similar surgeries and you put them in two separate hospital rooms, one has access to a window with a plant or a tree outside, and the other one doesn't have that. The patient with the window is going to recover faster, require less pain medication, um, and give a higher score on the patient satisfaction questionnaire when they leave the hospital. So I always tell friends that are going into the hospital, make sure that you have a green plant or some flowers, something alive around you as you are recuperating. And there's um some very famous studies about um about patients in hospitals having access to either artwork or photographs or an actual window.

Wendy Roop 47:37

Such impactful work.

Pam Lowe Cho 47:40

Yeah, yeah.

Wendy Roop 47:42

Yeah.

Daily Nature Habits And The Legacy Goal

Wendy Roop 47:43

Um gosh, we could talk to you all day, Pam, but we probably need to wrap it up here. Um, first of all, anything else that's important for you to share with our listeners that they need to know about you or anything you have coming up and your work.

Pam Lowe Cho 48:04

Yeah. So I have um, so all of if you're in the Greater Cincinnati, Northern Kentucky, Dayton area, um, I have all of my walks are on my um website, Trektrek Coaching.com. I have some resources on there if you want to learn more about the art of forest bathing. But for um adults that are listening or watching this, I just want to encourage them to think about starting their day by stepping outside, whether it's 30 seconds, three minutes, or 30 minutes, um, just to take some deep breaths, close your eyes, listen to the songbirds, um, just to get yourself grounded at this at the start of the day and try to take some mini breaks, um, just stepping outside wherever you are. It doesn't have to be a park. And to those of you that have children, and like Wendy, I loved that story of your granddaughter and you know, pointing out a tree. And uh that is something that will stay with her for the rest of her life. And she'll be able to go to that tree when she needs a place to feel calm or she needs a place to feel safe. So I want to encourage teachers and parents to get the children outside uh at an at an early age and have them appreciate and have them learn and have them experience the joy and the wonder and the hope that you find when you're in nature.

Wendy Roop 49:37

That's perfect. Um, yeah, one thing that we ask that you've probably heard on our episodes you've listened to at the end is, you know, okay, let's go inside. So it's almost like what challenge do you call our listeners to? And I think that's a great, I think that's a great challenge. And, you know, even though we didn't say the word or talk a lot about culture, um, to me, it's very apparent how all of this, right, and being in nature is absolutely gonna have a positive impact on our culture, all in all aspects of it, whether it's at home, at work, or what have you, because we're gonna be healthier, we're gonna be happier, we're gonna be more grounded. Um anything else that comes up for you, a Pam Pam, around that, just knowing the connection there?

Pam Lowe Cho 50:21

So when you take a team outside, um, you get to learn about each other in a much different way. And it um helps to release some of the emotions. And I'm kind of careful in how I say that because I don't want people to think that you get out in the woods and you start crying because that's that's not it. But it just lets some of the guard down and it helps to even out, you know, who's who on the totem pole. And every single team that I have taken out have enjoyed it and have commented on how they've gotten to know each other in a very different way than if they had been inside a conference room.

Wendy Roop 51:06

Yeah, so needed, so needed. So I think I want to wrap us up with this. I love this, and I think this was on your LinkedIn versus your website, maybe both, but I saw this and it just really hit home with me. So while leadership skills will always be in demand, what I see my clients needing is a safe, quiet space to stop, be still, and think without the distractions of electronic screens and the demands of work. And isn't that so true? And what a beautiful way for us to be able to find that quiet space is by just using, you know, what's what's even in our backyard. And and Pam, I think the last question I'd love to ask you is what legacy do you hope to leave by you continuing to be intentional with this work?

Pam Lowe Cho 52:04

I want my legacy to be that I've helped to educate people enough where they get curious that they want to go outside, they want to experience what nature has to offer so that it helps with their well-being mentally and physically, and that more people go outside and find hope and find joy.

Wendy Roop 52:36

Beautiful. Thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you for having me. Of course, of course. Well, with that, we will see everybody next time on Culture as an inside job. Have a great day.