Mike Ettore: 0:00

Leaders exist solely to serve and enable those they are privileged to lead, and not vice versa. Show people what right looks like, because without a good culture, you'll have a mediocre organization at best.

Wendy Roop: 0:19

We're thrilled to welcome an exceptional leader and innovator to the Culture is an Inside Job podcast. Thrilled to welcome an exceptional leader and innovator to the Culture is an Inside Job podcast. Mike Ettore is a decorated Marine Corps infantry officer and combat veteran with over 40 years of leadership experience, spending the military, corporate and coaching worlds. During his corporate career, Mike served as a trusted C-level executive for a billion-dollar professional services firm. Today, as the founder of Fidelis Leadership Group, he coaches and mentors leaders across industries. Mike is the author of four impactful books on leadership, including his newest Trust-Based Leadership, and the host of the Fidelis Leadership Podcast, where he shares actionable insights for leaders at all levels.

Wendy Roop: 1:01

Please join us in welcoming the inspiring Mike Ettore to the Culture is an Inside Job podcast. Welcome back everybody. It's great to see you, Scott and Karen. And today we have an amazing guest with us, Mike Ettore. And before we go any further and before we go any further, I'm going to let Karen introduce Mike and to get us started, because they were the ones that got connected and Karen brought Mike to us.

Karen Benoy Preston: 1:38

Okay, great. So thank you guys for being able to bring Mike into this. You guys for being able to bring Mike into this. Somewhere along the way, Mike, you came across me and invited me to come be a guest on your podcast, which was a really great experience. We've stayed in touch ever since. I view you as a mentor, as a leadership guide, and you just really changed my life in terms of seeing things through the lens of where's there opportunity. So thank you for that and thank you for being here and being able to share your story with us.

Mike Ettore: 2:18

It's my pleasure, privilege, to be here and, by the way, Karen, I look at you as the same. I've learned a lot from you during our podcast and I follow you on LinkedIn and all of that. So I jokingly refer to myself as being the world's oldest leadership student, at the age of 68 plus. I'm sure there are other ones, but you get the point. I'm always learning. Not a week goes by. I don't see something like how did I not know that you know related to the art and science of the craft, and I've learned a lot from reading, talking to you and all of that. So it's a from my perspective a mutually beneficial relationship.

Karen Benoy Preston: 3:04

Love that, thank you for allowing that mutuality to flourish. Yeah, so where do you want to start here? What question is burning that you would want to be able to answer out there? The world that we see right now, there's so much going on. Through the lens of being a leader, not just the Marine, not just, you know, an executive, not just a father. What's

Mike Ettore: 3:41

Thank you for that. I would say that you know I have a quote that I put when I sign books. I have a little sticky that I quote and then I personalize it and the quote is a Mike Ettore quote. I'm fond of creating quotes, you know, and it's the "Leadership is the secret weapon on every battlefield. And so you know I served in the Marine Corps for 24 years You've mentioned that and then as a C-level executive in a publicly traded company at the billion dollar plus level for 15 years and now an executive coach since 2015,. I was a parent, a wrestling coach I had two sons that wrestled.

Mike Ettore: 4:19

I'm exposed to the sport and in every single environment that I have personally been in, observed, studied, read about, the common denominator and the ultimate long-term survivability and success of that organization is leadership. Without question, sometimes different environments call for different leadership, but sound, ethical, concerned, caring, effective, detailed leadership. There's no replacement for that. So I would say leadership is what's needed across the world. Right now. We have elected officials and America's divided right now Both major parties that you look at them on TV. Is this guy telling me the truth? We don't trust them. We don't trust the media I'm generalizing now we look at everything with suspicion, foreign countries. We don't trust them, they don't trust us. What's going on?

Mike Ettore: 5:20

And I think sometimes in recent times, the worst characteristics of human nature have emerged to kind of overshadow the positive side of it. And I think the answer to all of those dilemmas is just solid, ethical leadership. And I've yet to find, I've found organizations. Well, let me say it this way to bolster my argument here I'm not aware of any organization deemed excellent, the best at what they do, or even top 10 at what they do their industry, their niche, their sports, what they do, their industry, their niche, their sports that is not led by really good leaders. I don't know, I'm not aware of any organization that survives over the long haul with sustained superior results that is led by defective leadership at the top. Because I truly believe that as go the leaders, so goes the team always.

Mike Ettore: 6:32

And so I was raised in a Marine environment where Marines are expected to be truthful and honest and act with integrity in all they say and do, at all times, even in the face of death, injury in combat, the loss of your Marines, or in peacetime, the loss, maybe of your career, saying something that doesn't fit the narrative that the party line is saying, and all of that. So it's just all about leadership. That's my thought and I tend I'm already rambling on this. I can be an evangelist on this. I'm on the soapbox, I'm a leadership guy and I've yet to find a problem in any organization, be it tactical, technical, ethical, whatever that doesn't eventually go back to leadership. You find me a sales company that's struggling with sales. Ultimately you'll have the senior leadership, have made poor decisions, unwise decisions, tactically wrong decisions or whatever the case may be. So I'll shut up now and let you follow up.

Karen Benoy Preston: 7:45

Yeah, so just to kind of stay in this idea here when you see that it's not working, the dysfunction what needs to happen to help bring leadership rise back up to the top, Like you've been in this situation?

Mike Ettore: 8:06

Yeah, thank you. I think that. So let me ask you this when I teach leadership as I was taught, and I teach it and I can't I'll tell anybody to listen. My whole claim to fame was I left the Marine Corps after 24 years, joined corporate America, really didn't know anything about business, but I learned within weeks, I discovered within weeks that this leadership and organizational skills stuff that I knew applied 100%. So I am telling you and a lot of civilians, so to speak, are astounded by this when I say I led civilian men and women exactly like I led US Marines, exactly Because you know from the movies, you think you know screaming and yelling and demeanor, that's that in boot camp there's a whole lot of yelling going on in boot camp.

Mike Ettore: 8:51

You know when you're trying to make the grade and enter the organization. After that, I have actually found that the military is far more polite of a society than out here. You know, please, thank you, would you please do this and all that it's. You know, I, I, it's just there. So you know the bottom line is, aside from impeccable, rock solid, impeccable character and integrity, I think the next quality that is essential for any effective leader is humility, and it's that humility that enables a leader to look inward and say am I the leader that you're expecting? Am I meeting the mark? Am I enabling you and equipping you guys for success? And you know, fellas, we're all trying hard but, guys and gals, our results just aren't that good. And so you have to have humility to look inward and be a brutal self-critic of yourself and be willing to face the one thing I can do today to help your life become better. Just simple questions, not rocket science, but without that humility.

Mike Ettore: 10:13

I'm an executive coach. I've dealt with leaders that would bring me in and say, mike, you need to talk to my executive team. They're just not meeting the mark and they have never said a single critical thing about themselves. And invariably in that situation, when I go in and talk to people, the main source of problems is the CEO himself. And it's very delicate. They listen to me because I'm an old guy. A 50-year-old CEO is probably not going to listen to a 48 year old executive coach. But I think I get the benefit of doubt because I got the grandpa thing going on. It's like, okay, let's, the old boy's been around, let's at least see what he's got to say.

Mike Ettore: 10:56

And I would say about 50% of the time they have the epiphany like well, you know, I I've never asked those questions of myself and now that I've asked them and I'm willing to face the answers, I realize I've been the main source of friction and uh and ships passing in the night in this company. So long answer. But I think humility, uh, of leaders to ask of themselves am I doing it? And ask others, how am I doing? And then to be willing to ask is the organization accomplishing our mission statement and our annual goals and objectives? It's as simple as that. You either are and if you're not, tactical problem, business problem, climate's changing out there. Business climate, interest rates, whatever the case may be, and or less effective or ineffective leadership from the top on down, refusing to see the market change, refusing to see industry trends, sticking with a product that this is our main product, except it's passe now, it's last generation type technology or whatever. So hopefully that answers what you're looking for.

Karen Benoy Preston: 12:09

Yeah, thank you. Thanks for sure, wendy, what's coming up for you?

Wendy Roop: 12:13

Yeah, I think what's coming up for me is, since we're on really the topic of two, like how you define leadership, right, all the things that you've mentioned um, and I think we would all concur like those are, you know, such important pieces um to being a strong leader. One thing we were talking about before we um actually officially started recording was vulnerability, and so, mike, I'm curious in your opinion, what does the role of vulnerability play in leadership?

Mike Ettore: 12:49

Well, I think it's. I think that vulnerability, you know, you have to have, the humility I just, you know, you, you know, did a sermon on that and right next to that is, you know, linked if they were Lego blocks they'd be linked vulnerability with that humility. The humility enables a leader to be vulnerable and I call it the leadership epiphany. And the leadership epiphany is every leader, every good leader, has it eventually, and they always wish they had it earlier in their career. But I wasn't taught it, so as a leader I probably didn't have this till my mid-30s and that was well into my Marine Corps career.

Mike Ettore: 13:29

I'd been in charge of a lot of Marines peacetime and combat and the leadership epiphany is the day that a leader sits back and finally has the thunderbolt hit him or her and says I'm going to do this. I don't have to be the smartest person in the room. My people don't expect me to have all the answers all the time for any situation or problem, and saying things like I don't know and what do you recommend are seen as signs of strength in a leader, not weakness of strength in a leader, not weakness.

Mike Ettore: 14:08

And the sooner that epiphany happens in a leader that enables that, it puts gasoline on that humility and vulnerability. And you're all aware of what I call the great Patrick Lencioni, a very accomplished author, as you know. One of his main books is built around vulnerability, the willingness for a senior leader to go in and say I am in charge, I am your leader and but I need your help, I can't do it without you. And on that particular issue I don't know, I've not had any experience or training with it. So the best leaders, the very best leaders, are very vulnerable and their ego is such to where they don't care.

Mike Ettore: 14:58

A leadership development program, which I felt entirely comfortable and personally experienced to do, but very, very quickly. It was during the dot-com crash and so we were going. We went, our stock went from 32 bucks to a buck 50. We almost got thrown off of the stock exchange and made into a penny stock. So executives were bailing. So that was bad. It was a tough situation, but there was a lot of opportunity for me. So a couple of years after I joined, they put me in charge. They made me the CIO, and computers were new back then. A lot of younger people laugh at that. But I only had one computer in the Marine Corps. That was my very last duty station and we really never used it. And I tell modern day Marines I said I never got an email from my boss.

Mike Ettore: 15:52

Or like I said, yeah, we just, it was brand new, you know, and somehow we operated for 200 plus years without nagging emails and copying 48 people and requiring you to respond at 68 emails before noon and all of that. And they wish for those days like, oh my God, it must've been so much easier than I said. Well, in a way I didn't have that aggravation and all that. So my point is I retired in 1998 as a Marine and I did not really. I wasn't really sure how to save a file. This is showing you how bad I was and the very few me. I'll bet you my entire last duty station because we were dealing with a lot of classified material and stuff. So you don't really put that out on email. Anyway. You have to very strict protocols, you know. I mean, you read these papers and they're in a binder with a lock on it and if you go to the bathroom you bring it to the bathroom with you or you lock it up in a safe, you know, and it's classified stuff. So I didn't really have to send email. I probably sent less than 20 emails in my last duty station, but they were in all caps because the shift key was too. It was too much for me to comprehend that. You know I was a techno, not a technophobe, but I was not technically inclined by any means and I like, what the hell is this email stuff? You know, I didn't understand where it was going.

Mike Ettore: 17:10

Fast forward two years and I got better. I actually learned how to forward an attachment and all that, and I could learn the shift key and I was sending email in corporate America now, you know. But they asked me to be the CIO of 176 person it group, $45 million budget and the they had just fired the second legit it guy computer science degrees, master's degrees, cio in a row. They said, mike, out of desperation, would you take it and provide some adult leadership? And so I knew nothing about it and there were great people in there. I had no choice, folks, but to be vulnerable. So when they introduced me, here's your new CIO.

Mike Ettore: 17:52

The whole group was, all of them were in his big auditorium. They were like they knew me and I thought you know I hopefully. They thought well, we know, mike, he's a good guy. But the CIO, this guy routinely calls us and asks us how do I turn my computer on? You know like my computer's jammed. Yeah, mike, we have to do this, you know like, oh, ok, thank you and they leave my office like yeah.

Mike Ettore: 18:19

Jesus, this guy you know, hire him some help or something you know. And so I had no choice but to be vulnerable and I told them look, I'm as surprised to be here as you are to see me. I can't provide any technical background. I have been your customer for two years, so I know there's problems here and I think I can help when it comes to leadership and organization. But we're not going to succeed without working together, and I firmly believe there's more than enough technical expertise down here. You folks know what the problems are. I'm not sure you've effectively addressed them, having the right meetings or just be willing to tackle the tough issues and with those great people. Again, I cannot offer any technical advice.

Mike Ettore: 19:07

Within two years they took that IT group from the company's largest back office liability to where we were pulling off major software implementations and we actually made it look easier. It became an afterthought, like we want to install this big software system this is CRM and all of that and of course, of course, the tech group will have this master, don't you know? If they tell us they need 18 months and $8 million, it will be done in 16 months for $7 million. They just are great, you know, and it was much less about me and all about the talent and knowledge and experience that was latent in that group, and it just needed that leadership chemical added to the stew to make it a really good meal, so to speak, you know. And so after that they put me in charge of marketing, started a social media group.

Mike Ettore: 20:03

I did know a little bit of social media, I was a fan of internet marketing and all that. I had done a little bit of studying, and so at that point I might've been the only executive in the company that had a Facebook profile and LinkedIn. They just said, oh, we're not doing that, it's a waste of time. And I said I think this is the wave of the future and all that. So they said, mike, we're getting torn up on earnings calls, the Wall Street analysts are asking us why don't you have a social media presence and this and that.

Mike Ettore: 20:28

So they realized we have to do this now. Would you start it? You seem to be inclined to her. So I said sure. So I commandeered about six young ladies, recent college graduates, who because of their youth and age, they were all over social media, even as infancies, and they started a social media department and I gave them resources and all of that and within two years, our website and social media channels was responsible for a verified hundred million dollars in gross revenue. And again, I didn't do it. I just did what any good leader did I assembled a good team and enabled and equipped them. So I know I'm rambling and diverting here and all of that, but hopefully this resonates for what you guys are looking for.

Wendy Roop: 21:25

Yeah, absolutely, and I mean it really does go back to and I think all that story, mike, and that's why we what we love, you know, in our episodes, in our podcasts, are the stories, because that's what matters and I think people really can connect with that.

Wendy Roop: 21:39

And you know, the initial piece that you started talking about was that whole um, uh, that vulnerability right, humility allows leaders to be vulnerable. And then there's that leadership epiphany, and so part of that, too, was in your story. It's like the realization that you're stepping into the unknown, you're trusting your own leadership skills, even if you don't have all the answers. And I think so many times as leaders, again, we feel like you know that's where we put our value and having all of the answers and telling people what to do, and if we're not doing that, then where's our value. So I loved you talking about that and, scott, I'm curious with you, like being that you were, you know, ceo in the corporation. How do you relate to what Mike is talking about with regard to that leadership epiphany, right, and the willingness to be able to let go and lead even if you don't have all the answers?

Scott McGohan: 22:36

Yeah, mike, I want to say thank you. I think the most interesting thing that you said and I'm going to answer your question first but was the fact that my of the military is I. I would have never made it, um, because I'm not a very compliant person, but maybe, based on what you said, maybe I would have. But I think, um, you know, when I think of uh, when I think of leadership, and especially my experience, even at MB, my whole world changed when I stopped talking and I started listening, because there was, there was an. Well, you know when, when we talk a lot in a, in a, in a meeting quite frankly this is just my opinion it is really because we're afraid, scared, we're afraid someone's going to find out, we don't know enough, so we just talk, we just talk our way around it. And actually, lansione wrote a book called Death by Meeting. It's a great book and what you'll find is great leaders. They talk a lot because they're they're afraid and what's, what's even more incredible and Mike even said this is it?

Scott McGohan: 23:54

Help is the most powerful word in the English language, besides the sound of your name. Someone yells Wendy, you're going to turn around. I don't care if you're in a stadium or in the grocery store, you're going to turn around Wendy. And if someone else help, you're going to do the same thing. You're in a stadium or in the grocery store, you're going to turn around Wendy. And if someone yells help, you're going to do the same thing. You're going to turn around. And if you're in a meeting and someone says I need your help, everyone leans into that because everyone wants to help. But when someone says I need your help, it actually it gives them inspiration, it gives them. It gives them. It gives them. I don't want to say power in a bad way, but power in a good way Like this person wants my help and is as a leader, if you're the last one to speak in a meeting, um, that's really powerful.

Scott McGohan: 24:39

We used to have our you know, director of HR. Her name is Suzanne. She used to always say you're not saying much, I'm like I don't have to. She was like what do you mean? You're not saying much, I'm like I don't have to. She was like what do you mean? I'm like you guys are. I mean I go, I would trust me. I'll like I'll say something, but now you guys, you're doing a great job, I don't. I don't have to say a whole lot. She was nervous Don't be nervous Like you guys are doing a great job. So I really appreciate now. It took me a long time to figure that out. Oh, my goodness, it took me and, looking back, it was all. It was all ego. It was. It was 100% ego, which, sadly, was just fear. It was just fear. There's just a little boy that was just afraid to ask for help. Yeah, hey.

Karen Benoy Preston: 25:27

Mike, I got a question for you.

Scott McGohan: 25:28

I so um. You have grandkids, right?

Mike Ettore: 25:32

I do, yeah, yeah yeah, they're all. We should have had them first, right yeah, exactly, you know, I'm a much better parent now. You know. I say, all right, son, I've been there, done this, I'm going home. You know what I mean, you know now you handle it what's your youngest uh grandchild?

Scott McGohan: 25:50

how old?

Mike Ettore: 25:51

uh, about 15 months 15.

Scott McGohan: 25:54

Okay, what's the second one?

Mike Ettore: 25:57

so I have three grandchildren, okay, uh, going on 13 11. And then my other son and his wife just had a brand new baby and she is 15 months old. So it spans from almost 13 to 15 months.

Scott McGohan: 26:11

Okay. Is the 11 year old a boy or a girl?

Mike Ettore: 26:15

A girl, the 13 year old is a boy, the 11 year old is a girl and the little baby is a girl as well.

Scott McGohan: 26:24

What's? What's the 11 year old name, Brooke? Brooke, what does she call you?

Mike Ettore: 26:31

And my grandchildren. When my son had, and his wife had, the first child, cole, my grandson, they said at some point, you know, what do you want to be called, you know. And so I said well, you know, there's a lot of grandpas around and you're, you know, the wife's father wanted to be pop, pop, you know. And I said how about the major? How about major? You know, my, my, my final rank, you know? And they said done.

Wendy Roop: 27:07

That's cool.

Mike Ettore: 27:08

And so my, my whole, all my grandchildren, hi major, hello major, and all of that. All my grandchildren hi Major, hello Major, and all of that. I put a post on LinkedIn about this a humorous post, I think they do. They call me Major. In the Marine Corps there's an old tradition of addressing seniors in the third person. If I was a captain and I walked in in the morning and there were people there that were lower ranking than me, they would stand up say good morning sir. How was the captain's workout this morning? I said it was great. I ran five miles, I feel good. It just kicked my butt and all of that. So I joke that once they become teenagers my grandchildren have to start addressing me like good morning major. Would the major like some more chocolate?

Karen Benoy Preston: 27:58

chip cookies.

Mike Ettore: 27:59

The major's looking very strong this morning. I'm just joking, that's what they call me, major. I just figured out. There's a ton of grandpops out there and pop, pops and paw paws. I'm the major.

Scott McGohan: 28:11

So I stuck with it. Wow, so I got a question for you. So Brooke comes up to you and says major um, you know major you talk about. So what's? How do you answer Brooke's question If she asks you what? What is leadership? If you had to explain that to Brock?

Mike Ettore: 28:47

what does that look like to an 11 year old? Diverted themselves from science and engineering careers, and all that because I don't know. I don't know why, but it was a fact. So I think I would tell her. Well, brooke, great question.

Mike Ettore: 29:02

First thing I want to let you know is man or woman can be good leaders. You don't have to be six foot tall, you don't have to be big, strong guy, marine or whatever. And I told her some of the best leaders I ever saw were women who were tiny physically but boy did they control the room and there was no doubt who was in charge of that organization. They were really good. So I would tell her, if you're thinking about going that direction, you can be a leader somehow manages to corral and coordinate and channel the efforts of a diverse group of people, different ages, different specialties, different departments and focus their efforts toward unified goals that help the company accomplish its vision and mission. And that's what I would tell her.

Mike Ettore: 30:17

Leadership is a learned skill. She's a cheerleader, she's in high level, competitive cheerleading, national championships level. And I would tell her just like you didn't know anything and then you started and you had talent and you got good, but you practice six days a week and you go on all these road trips. Same thing with leadership you have to immerse yourself, become a student of it and you can become a world-class leader. I believe anybody has the ability to become a world-class leader. You don't have to be in a world-class organization. You could lead the mailroom in a $1 million company not Fortune 500, and be a world-class mailroom leader of the other three fellows or gals that are delivering the mail and taking the packages every day. So kind of a long answer, but that's what I would tell her. I would encourage her, I would define what leadership is. I would define that she's capable of doing it and I would define that at the essence, it is the ability to harness the efforts of others toward unified goals.

Karen Benoy Preston: 31:24

Mike, so quick question. You have written several books coming back to this whole, like teaching us kind of thing, and I love your book. You're the big book.

Mike Ettore: 31:37

Thank you, yeah, trust-based leadership.

Karen Benoy Preston: 31:39

Yes, trust-based leadership. Is that your most recent project? Is that your most recent book?

Mike Ettore: 31:48

No, that was my first book, karen and folks, what she's what Karen's referring to is I wrote a book. Again, it was my realization that people my Marine buddies were asking Mike, I'm about to retire, how'd you do this? And I said no, no, listen to me, you don't have to go get an MBA. That's good, but it's not required. You have already learned enough leadership and organizational skills to be good out here. You have already learned enough leadership and organizational skills to be good out here. And then I realized, as a coach, I need to be teaching this. And so I wrote that book. It's 574 pages and it serves as a curriculum for my coaching and training. So if I coach somebody, I'm like okay, susan, before next week's session, I need you to read chapter 13, 32, 58, and 70, because they're germane to where we're at right now. It's a very, very big book and in the hands of people like you, I think you could open up the table of content and say I could use this as a leadership curriculum in my company if we want to start our own in-house leadership development group. And I am aware of people doing that and I love that. You know, if you can't hire me and you don't want to spend the money and bring Mike on board, buy the book and have people read a chapter every week and have a discussion period about it, you know, and all of that, and I'm aware of a good number of companies doing that. So, yeah, that was my very, very first book. It's all captured there.

Mike Ettore: 33:19

And before I as we've discussed, I think before we went live, I am a cancer patient and I'm going to be one for life and I live my life in 90 day sprints. Now, every 90 days I get a battery of tests to see what's going on and it's not for the faint of heart. But before I even got sick, I said I was very aware of my mortality. I was vain enough to think that I had a message that should survive me for the ages, and I think that I had a natural aptitude for leadership that was fueled by the Marine Corps and my early leaders and and they you know they basically told me earlier on you know, you're good at this, you know I was a young enlisted Marine and they said you're good at this. And then, eventually, a couple of years in, have you ever thought about getting out, going to college and coming back in and be a commissioned officer, and at that point I hadn't thought about that. I really I had no interest in going to college. I wasn't a good student in high school. So you know it just. It always flexed back to leadership. So that book is going to survive me.

Mike Ettore: 34:28

And then, of course, I've written several others that compliment it much shorter. Obviously, I'll never do that 574 pages again. That was a beast. I look at it and I'm like, oh my God. I mean it took me four years to write. I got carpal and cubital tunnel at one point because I was writing so much in bad posture I was just a nightmare.

Mike Ettore: 34:47

But those books are there and I am a leadership student. I think you folks understand that now I tell anybody. And so I am a collector of leadership books, including antiquarian books. I buy them off eBay. Some of them are 150 years old. And what I tell them about leadership the analogy I use is modern.

Mike Ettore: 35:06

Medicine has certainly developed even in my lifetime, and there are doctors. My doctors told me, mike, we are doing things now as outpatient surgery that when I was in med school 30 years ago we couldn't even conceive of doing much less doing it. Yeah, come in the morning, we'll do this. Two hours later you're back home. Hip replacements, knee joints, things like that has changed. But the doctors of today in medical school study the same skeleton, muscles, nervous system, basic human anatomy as in Michelangelo's drawings of a thousand or two years ago. And so how I relate this is in all of my studies the ancient Stoics, who I'm a big fan of, the basic skeleton of leadership in Lencioni's programs, marshall Goldsmith, all of the leadership gurus, so to speak, and then, throughout the ages, dale Carnegie they all seem to revolve around a common skeleton, a suite of science, of principles, fundamentals.

Mike Ettore: 36:24

And so that's what I tell folks is you know, they're proven fundamentals, proven science. Now the artful application of it, that's the trick. Some people are better artists than others, and I can tell people the first part of the book, karen. As you know, it's all about the science of leadership, and I tell people, I can teach you the science of leadership pretty quickly. All right, here it is, here's the fundamentals how to artfully employ it in various situations with various personalities. I'm still learning that too and, trust me, I've made more mistakes and hopefully, if you listen to me, you won't make some of the dumb mistakes I've made in the art aspect of it, you know.

Mike Ettore: 37:09

And so that's my story on that book. I'm sticking to it. I have a total of seven. Now I just published a brand new three leadership lessons series and all of that, where I take various books Lencioni is one of them and I do book summaries of these pretty famous authors and say here's what he said, here's chapter one, here's chapter two and here's what Mike says at the end, here's how I apply these lessons and all of that, so a total of seven, with more on the way. And so if you go to my website, on the homepage, if you scroll down, there's a graphic there of my I call it the Uncle Fester shot my head's there.

Mike Ettore: 37:47

You know what I mean and it says my purpose on the top and essentially says my purpose is to influence and help leaders develop and maximize their skills during and after my life. And it's the after my life that you have to leave something behind. And so I tell people and I did it this morning I tell people I write to my grandchildren's grandchildren every single morning and they're like what I said yes, I write every morning and I write something for my grandchildren's grandchildren. I said well, how many grandchildren you have, three, what are their ages? They don't get it. I said no, listen to me.

Mike Ettore: 38:31

I am vain enough to think that the things, the content that I'm leaving behind are evergreen lessons and that whatever the Internet's going to look like 500 years from now, I hope that somebody finds me and says look at this guy. A whole lot of what he says is still relevant because we're still dealing with human beings and who knows what the world is going to look like, what society is going to look like? But my belief is human nature has never and will never change. We, you know the seven deadly sins, all of that stuff. It's human nature. And so if we're dealing with human beings being able to artfully apply the science of it, I don't think it's ever going to go out.

Mike Ettore: 39:19

Now, the managerial side of it, technology and now working with remote audiences and things like remote workforce, that will change greatly 15, 20 years ago. Many of them are legit, many of them are passe. They won't work anymore. So on one side you have to be fairly consistent. On the other side you have to have an open mind, open book. How do I do this effectively? You have to be nimble-minded. I find that's difficult, that right brain, left brain kind of thing. It's not a common trait in many individuals, I think including leaders, but the best leaders managed to have a foot firmly planted in both hemispheres, so to speak.

Karen Benoy Preston: 40:00

Yeah, so let's go back to your website again, and how can people find you?

Mike Ettore: 40:06

It's fidelisleadershipcom. Those that know the Marine Corps know that our motto is Semper Fidelis, and Semper Fidelis is Latin for always faithful. So I get contacted quite frequently saying, yeah, as soon as I saw Fidelis leadership group right behind me, you know, I knew this guy was a Marine. You know my dad was a Marine and he had a license plate that said Semper Fidelis on it. So you know I lean heavily on my Marine background. Wait, they said Semper Videlis on it. So you know I lean heavily on my Marine background and, fortunately for me and as all you folks know and I'm not denigrating them I just I say there are leadership experts and expert leaders and the leadership experts are I are the academians, the academicians, you know, the people that have PhDs, they have studied leadership, they know all this stuff and blah, blah, blah, and they write a lot of books. I've read them all and I've learned greatly from them. But if you peel back and look at their actual leadership experience, some of them have actually never served in a leadership role except being the CEO of their own company, now their own big consulting company, which is good, but they didn't come up through the ranks, so to speak. But they're very valuable. So I tell people I have two graduate degrees but I don't consider myself a leadership expert. If someone says what do you think about Maslow's Theorarchy? And you know this study and all of that, I say I have heard of it, I'm not well versed on it. A leadership expert would say oh yeah, it was studied, done in 1935, and here is the results. And I don't begrudge that at all. They're very, very valuable.

Mike Ettore: 41:48

What I tell people is I'm not a leadership expert, but I am. I do consider myself an expert leader. And they're like oh, bold statement, what do you mean? I said I know enough at this point that I truly believe that you can put me in charge of any organization and we're thinking about it. No experience, I know what questions to ask that can bring out the talent and experience and recommendations of those in the group that I think my harshest critics would say after a few months. You know, I got to admit I don't know, I wasn't a fan of this. This didn't make sense to me. But he's asking good questions and and we are doing things now that we just couldn't convince the other guy to even consider, much less address. And so you know, I boldly say you know, general Motors is never calling me, but if they did, I'd take the job. I'd take the CEO job, and even a fine company that's just kicking butt right now.

Mike Ettore: 42:58

I think I can go in and in the short term, you know, ask three big questions. All right, folks, I don't know this industry, you do, so tell me. I want to know what should we start doing, what should we stop doing and what should we do differently? And then, to your point, just sit back and shut up and listen, and they almost always have all of the answers and suggestions. I'm like well, that one right there. It's common sense to me. What do you folks think? They're all like we should do it. I'm like am I missing something? Is there any reason why we shouldn't do this? No, I'm like done, make it happen, and I'm fully equipped to do that, you know.

Mike Ettore: 43:45

And so the difference between the leadership expert and the expert leader. And now there are some that have managed to pull off both. But anyway, I draw that distinction distinction. I am not belittling academia, I have learned so much from these folks and all of that, but sometimes, when I'm on my podcast, I have interviewed uh, new york times bestsellers, really accomplished leadership gurus and I'm fortunate enough, they I think they gave me the let's help a veteran out. You know, I this is when I had like three podcast episodes out there. They didn't know me and they're like, well, let's give the guy a shot.

Mike Ettore: 44:21

And so I was just impressed by this guy from the Wharton School of Business, new York Times bestseller leadership guru. You know. He's on Oprah and stuff. He's going to talk to me and and there are times when I see we're going face to face and I think he's coming in saying I'm going to share my knowledge with this guy and he does, and I really get it.

Mike Ettore: 44:42

But I think at some point it's interesting to see the look on their face when I start talking and I think they're thinking this guy's got some experiences that I don't and he's had a lot of hands-on leadership experience that I have not. And then they start asking me questions. I've actually made some lifelong friends of these men and women, just a high level of mutual respect, and so I don't say that to belittle them or to puff me up, I just think it's reality. You know, and I think all of us as leaders have had the another epiphany. Every now and then we sat back and our initial impression of somebody was just kind of lukewarm. And then two months, two years or 20 years in, you realize that person has had a profound impact upon me, my leadership, my whole demeanor and this company. And she doesn't even have a leadership role, she just is a huge influencer. And so I've learned never to judge the book by the cover.

Wendy Roop: 45:48

Love that.

Karen Benoy Preston: 45:50

Yeah, thank you. Thank you for giving us some great things to consider. Yeah, any thoughts? I?

Wendy Roop: 46:00

have a couple of things. But, scott, let me lean into you first. Maybe I can wrap us up.

Scott McGohan: 46:08

Mike, I appreciate one is hey, thank you for your service and giving back to me and my family and my grandchildren and the protection that you gave this country. And the gift that you gave the people that served next to you and the generations ahead of you. I can tell that you impacted a lot of Marines and your impact I think you called the Corps. Is that what you call it or not? Yeah, okay, so I'm not. I don't want to say something.

Mike Ettore: 46:49

No, no, I understand.

Scott McGohan: 46:51

But I can certainly tell that your fingerprints are there and that there are people that, as you say, there's a, there's a, there's a legacy of Mike, and so I'm just grateful for that and I'm grateful for, for your words, and so, and your grandkids are lucky, they're lucky, they got major in their life and by the way.

Mike Ettore: 47:15

By the way, that's the coolest grandpa name I've ever heard thank you, and I do want to add one thing to earlier comment, um, because I think it's a it's it's a really good lesson that I pass on, and I think there was a question in the cheat sheet that you gave me and we haven't talked about it, but I want to cover it. If you'd say, mike, what's the one thing you wish you had become better at earlier, I would agree with Scott. I was a good leader in the Marine Corps, arguably better than most of my peers, if I dare say so myself. I got significant accomplishments and awards from it, and I was a good leader in corporate America. But the one thing I wish I had gotten better at earlier was listening. I was never a bad listener and I was never a dictator and say, hey, you know, and just you know.

Mike Ettore: 48:13

To Scott's point, a leader should never tip his hand or her hand at the start of a meeting. All right, we're here to discuss this initiative and I'll tell you this right now I'm not a fan of it. We're not. I don't think we should do this. Well, what do you think your people are going to say? What do you think your people are going to say? They're going to say well, he's already voted. You know, we have to probably just align with him, especially if it's in a culture where they don't have the comfort of speaking truth to power. So I applaud you, scott. That's a great leadership technique Sit there arms folded, pose the question, shut up, let people talk. And then I learned also to say great insights, folks. Let me noodle on this for a couple days. You know, you don't even have to make a decision right there in many cases, you know. And so I was never a bad leader.

Mike Ettore: 49:00

But I was doing what many leadership coaches accuse people of doing I was listening, waiting for that person to stop talking so I could give them the answer that I had, before I even asked them the question. I was waiting for them to stop so I could evangelize and share my wisdom with them. And I learned at some point. I worked for a really seasoned executive who was the best listener I'd ever experienced. I'd meet with him and he'd say Mike, what about this? I'd say, well, bill, I put a brief together and he'd let me talk for 30 minutes without interrupting and then he'd say okay, are you done? I said yep, and he'd say good, now, early on, you said done. I said yep, and he'd say good. Now, early on, you said this tell me about that. He listened, he mastered the art of listening and he was my leader. I learned a lot from him and he was a real role model in that.

Mike Ettore: 50:20

And so I tell people I was never a bad leader. Arguably I was one of the top tier guys in any environment I was ever in. But Because how I would have answered or provided my guidance initially, when I let people talk, I realized Jesus, mike, it's a good thing you didn't say something up front. This would have been embarrassing. You had the whole entirely wrong read on this situation. So there's a little bit of self-preservation in that technique as well you know so listening has proven me wrong far more than it's proven me right.

Mike Ettore: 50:59

I'll say that that's great.

Wendy Roop: 51:01

Thank you, mike.

Wendy Roop: 51:04

And, as Scott said, and I know from all of us, you know, culture is an inside job.

Wendy Roop: 51:10

Yes, Thank, thank you so much for your service and thank you for your time today.

Wendy Roop: 51:14

And you know, one of the you know our, our podcast is called culture is an inside job, and I think one of the things, that things that you have shared with us that, to me, is most profound is, um, the whole piece really, that's tied to legacy, right, and how you write to your grandchildren's grandchildren every day, and while all of what you said makes a huge difference in the workplace and for the leaders within the workplace, to me the biggest piece is that legacy and that ripple effect that they're taking home with them, right.

Wendy Roop: 51:56

So, um, I just want to to call that out because I, um, I think sometimes we don't, uh, see the impact of that and and that piece is is really huge, and and one thing that we say at the, we try to remember to say at the every, every, at the end of every one of our episodes, is you know, let's go inside, right, and so what we mean by that is of what you shared today and we talked about on this episode. What would you invite our listeners to step back and go inside and if you were to give them one thing that they could take away from today, or to take an action around this and what you shared, what might that be? What would you like them to go inside with?

Mike Ettore: 52:47

Yeah, I would say it's a. It's a, it's a semi call and answer. So the first thing is leaders serve those. Leaders exist solely to serve and enable those they are privileged to lead, and not vice versa, and that they should relentlessly evangel culture, ethos and core values of the organization, because without a good culture you'll have a mediocre organization at best yeah, that's great.

Wendy Roop: 53:47

Thanks, that's a. That's a great way to end this. So with that, we wish you the best, mike. Thank you again, and to all of our listeners, we will see you soon.