Scott McGohan: 0:01

Honestly, I spent a long part of my life pretending because your opinion of me meant more than my own opinion of myself, and what I've realized is I am who I am. Like Dr Sue says be yourself, because everybody else is taken.

Wendy Roop: 0:17

Welcome to Culture is an Inside Job the podcast on building an authentic, engaging and inspiring culture. We believe that building a healthy work culture starts with leaders like you. If you're ready to get real and dig deep into your own self-awareness, determine how you want to show up in the world, then this podcast is for you. Now let's go inside Book. You got a book.

Karen Benoy: 1:07

Have you read your book? Let's go inside person. Yeah, yeah, picture. I need a picture book diary of a wimpy kid. Yes, it's good, okay, that's all.

Wendy Roop: 1:10

My daughter read until like eighth grade.

Karen Benoy: 1:11

She just didn't really want anything other than the picture books yeah, okay, so welcome back everybody.

Wendy Roop: 1:20

Uh, I don't know about you guys, but I think today is going to be awesome because we're going to jump into talking to Scott about his new book. Culture is an Inside Job.

Karen Benoy: 1:32

Isn't that the name of our podcast? Oh my God, it is Wow.

Scott McGohan: 1:36

Is that a?

Karen Benoy: 1:36

coincidence? It's not.

Scott McGohan: 1:38

It's just not. Was that an accident?

Wendy Roop: 1:40

We just happened to say hey, we're starting this podcast called Culture is an Inside Job, and you're like yeah, and I just wrote a book.

Karen Benoy: 1:46

Yeah, exactly how it happened. Perfect, true story, perfect.

Wendy Roop: 1:59

But no, we are so glad that those of you who choose to listen to us can be a part of our as Scott says, our shenanigans. And so, just diving into this today, scottott, again, we just would love to spend some time with you. First of all, again, congratulations, because although we want this podcast to be timeless, I can't let the day go by without congratulating you on your last official day at magoan break yeah, interesting not to go down this path, right Cause we could talk about this all day, but, but it matters because it's also a part of your story and a part of your book.

Wendy Roop: 2:32

So how is that feeling?

Scott McGohan: 2:34

You know it feels amazing and I think it's because I've just had a lot of time, uh, and I was sharing with you earlier. You know, when both Taylor and Courtney went off to college, I did not prepare myself for those events emotionally, um, spiritually, and it it was really hard on me. You know, when your kids are in your house, you know they're just going up to the room and then they're gone. You're like what just happened?

Wendy Roop: 2:59

Yeah.

Scott McGohan: 3:00

And my wife, even Lori, said like you didn't, you didn't know this was going to happen. I'm like, well, maybe I knew it was going to happen, but I didn't prepare myself for what was going to happen. So, uh, I've had what, uh, 12, 15 months to prepare for what today was going to look like. Um, every day is different. So this morning I woke up and I'm like okay, so this is the last official day. You know, I've got to put a suit on, I've got a meeting at 4.15. Who scheduled that? I don't know why, and it'll be fun.

Scott McGohan: 3:36

They wanted to hold on to you as long as they possibly could. I've got everything out of my office except for a small box, and then I'll touch that back door today at probably 515 and no looking back drive home and that'll be. Uh, it's funny too, as I did some. I did some math because I thought hey, what are some of the routines that are going to change? Driving to work's one of them, and how far is your?

Scott McGohan: 4:00

commute. It's about 19 miles. So if I drove to Dayton 35 years every day for 35 years and then I went to Columbus maybe three days a week for like two years, it's roughly 400,000 miles and I was like, well, how far is 400,000 miles? And then actually the moon is 200,000 miles away.

Karen Benoy: 4:24

You went to the moon and back. You went to the moon and back.

Scott McGohan: 4:25

So I went to the moon and back.

Wendy Roop: 4:27

Wow.

Scott McGohan: 4:27

Which is really kind of cool.

Wendy Roop: 4:29

That is kind of cool. And then I think that's your next book. It is to the moon and back To the moon and back.

Scott McGohan: 4:36

So yeah, but that'll change Right. So I don't you know like I even when, I drove like I'll drive in the day and I'll like get off the exit ramp and I'll be like, okay, that's probably not going to happen for a while, although the golf course is on the same exit ramp, so maybe that's a strong possibility.

Wendy Roop: 4:53

It is getting warmer and nicer.

Scott McGohan: 4:55

Yeah, I had to put a suit on the day. I'll put a suit on tomorrow and after that I you know, rebrand yourself right got rid of probably 50 ties. You know, I probably still have a few left, but I really don't want to wear them.

Wendy Roop: 5:13

I just don't so yeah, all kinds of cool stuff that's great well we can't wait to keep up with you on this next chapter and all the good that comes from it this section, sponsored by laurie mcgowan.

Scott McGohan: 5:28

Yes, yes oh, it's funny because she's not she. So I I moved in my office, in my house and I I got a coffee maker up in my bathroom like a little keurig my best friend does that. I'm like that's pretty smart I know you're right there and you get it and uh, so I ordered another one. She goes. Why do you need another one?

Wendy Roop: 5:48

I need one in my office.

Scott McGohan: 5:49

She's why and I'm like I drink a lot of coffee and if you want me to just keep coming upstairs and interrupting your sleep, that's going to get ugly fast, so I'm planning ahead but, she is not a morning person, so I'll get up in the morning and she'll be like no. I need my tea and 30 minutes of the today show, and then you're allowed to start talking.

Wendy Roop: 6:15

Now my dog and I were like.

Scott McGohan: 6:17

Colton and I are like best buddies in the morning. I mean just all kinds of yeah, she is no way.

Wendy Roop: 6:25

Oh, that's funny.

Karen Benoy: 6:26

So she might kick me out of the house after a while yeah, it is probably a uh, that's your new job is to figure out how to navigate the house differently. Yeah.

Wendy Roop: 6:37

Yeah.

Scott McGohan: 6:38

Men. You know, for men, as long as we understand, we have three places. We're allowed to go where we have. We have um, I want, I don't want to say complete authority, but we have more authority in these three places. One is the garage.

Karen Benoy: 6:53

That's true, I'll give you that.

Scott McGohan: 6:54

One is your yard, um, not the flowers, the grass, yeah, uh. And the third is if you have an office, um, other than that, you have zero authority in your house. And the day you surrender that, your life just gets easier.

Karen Benoy: 7:11

As long as you have it.

Scott McGohan: 7:12

Yeah.

Karen Benoy: 7:12

Otherwise it bleeds over into, like the basement.

Scott McGohan: 7:16

Oh, yeah, and then it's like yeah, territorial right. Yeah.

Wendy Roop: 7:20

My husband says he's in charge when I'm gone and when the dog is gone.

Karen Benoy: 7:27

He's in charge, then yeah, he's got full access to being in charge?

Wendy Roop: 7:33

She definitely is. Yeah, large and in charge. Well, great Well. Congratulations, scott, and we're thankful we get to be a part of this journey.

Karen Benoy: 7:41

I am so thankful for this we're thankful we get to be a part of this journey. I am so thankful for this. I was thinking this morning that what I wanted to say to you on LinkedIn was, you know, while our time together has been short, it has been incredibly meaningful to me and most impactful. So the gratitude that I have. While everyone else that's known you for all these years could speak to that, I don't have that, but what I do have is very, very rich. So thank you.

Scott McGohan: 8:06

Oh, thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that I don't know if thankful I think thankful Thursdays will continue.

Wendy Roop: 8:12

Yeah, oh well, they, they have to expect that.

Scott McGohan: 8:15

Yeah, I think they'll just kind of get a little gritty too.

Wendy Roop: 8:19

And Scott, I just have to say I heard someone say the other day they're like you know. What I appreciate, appreciate by Scott about Scott is you know the positions that you've held and you know who you are and the success you've had, but you show up so authentically, like on thankful Thursdays, like you just, you're, just you, you know, and they were like I just really appreciate that.

Scott McGohan: 8:41

So it's, it's goofy, there's no, you know, I no.

Scott McGohan: 8:46

Honestly, I spent a long part of my life pretending because your opinion of me meant more than my own opinion of myself, and so a lot of things that I think about today and actually, honestly, it's a lot of the book is around. I want to talk about what I struggled with, and I want to talk about maybe the things that I think about and what I've realized is other people are thinking about those things too, and so how do we bring that to life? Is we bring the good and the bad and the ugly and then we can like. Instead of like being marbles in life, we can be grapes and we can like. We can just smash together.

Scott McGohan: 9:31

And there's a lot of beauty in bringing all of those pieces together. And then, like I don't care what people think about me. I mean I don't mean that like holistically, but I'm just, I am who I am, like Dr. Dr sue says and then the advice would be be yourself, because everybody else is taken so yes, good luck I'm so curious about the moment when you had that realization.

Karen Benoy: 10:02

Like it's easy for you to reflect back now and go oh yeah, look, I was more worried about what everybody else thought about than than what I thought about myself. But there was a moment in time that that shifted. But hey, this is your story, so I'm just curious.

Scott McGohan: 10:18

It's really. It's at the beginning of the book. It's the story, Um. So I grew up with a twin brother and I love Todd and we get along really well today.

Scott McGohan: 10:27

But when you're an identical twin, you just fight for your own identity. Your mom dresses you like you know. She put red cardigan sweaters on and white turtlenecks and khaki pants and we looked alike and everyone, everywhere we went, was like oh, you know, and you just want to be different. Uh, and sometimes being different is uh, that fight to be different can get really ugly. So and you just try to fit in. You want to. You don't want to be referred to as Scott and Todd, you want to be referred to by your own name.

Scott McGohan: 11:00

And then that kind of grew up in society and then I was big into looking around what other people had, what they drove, what they wore, and so stuff became a big part of my life and I filled my soul with a lot of those things and it wasn't gratifying at all. And then when Victoria kind of called me on the carpet you know, 20 some odd years ago and said today's my last day, I'd like to say I changed then because I was really virtuous and noble, but I wasn't. I was so arrogant, I didn't want anybody else to know what Victoria said. So I was like now I got a choice, I could change a little bit and keep her, but it was that truth telling that like that nudged me. Uh, and then, um, you know, they say in life that bottom, the bottom's a beautiful place to be, as long as you know you're there, cause when you're there you can dig or you can climb, and by the grace of god, it just, you know, decided to, decided to climb, and that meant putting down a lot of idols, that meant putting down a lot of ego and a lot of pride and and it took a lot of hard work, but that was, you know, 20 years ago.

Scott McGohan: 12:23

And then, you know, I've been involved in, you know, a recovery group at Southbrook, and that's been 16 years. So it's been, you know, and I get to go every Monday night and I get to watch brokenness and I can look at and say, there, by the grace of God, there go I. That's an option I could could. I could choose right now to pull the shenanigans cards out and go back, but I'm having too much fun changing, so I'll just keep going. That was a long answer, short question that's a great.

Karen Benoy: 12:52

That's a great answer.

Wendy Roop: 12:53

It is. It is and it's such an important part of again your story in this book and so forth, and and so I I'd love to back up a little bit and just even ask you and I know we were involved with when you were like writing this book and trying to come up with the title of the book, but where you landed in the title of the book, like what does that? What does that mean to you? What does that title culture as an inside job mean to you?

Scott McGohan: 13:20

It's such a good question, you know, I think at the end of the day and this is my opinion, but at least inside of an organization and even inside society and even inside of our homes and our relationships, is, you know, we put our best clothes on, we put makeup on, or we, we present ourselves in the best way that we can, and then sometimes, we never go inside because we're so worried about what the outside looks like.

Scott McGohan: 13:50

But when we're all alone and our heads on the pillow and we think about the dark things that are going on in our life, then we go inside and we get really, we get scared and we get afraid. So we mask it and then we fill our lives with, we think things are going to solve those problems. And and the beautiful thing about coming inside is um, at least for me, is I was allowed to go back to when I was a little boy, playing in the woods all by myself, or when I like to draw, uh, and there was things I like to do as a little boy, but society told me I shouldn't do those things, and actually they didn't tell me that those were lies, I told myself. And when we're allowed to go inside and say maybe we remember two dates in our life the day we were born. But the most beautiful day is when we define why we were born, so why we're here, and then we get to build on that. So it was really more around um it. It is your.

Scott McGohan: 14:49

Your own culture, your organization's culture is not about ping pong balls and ball chairs and paint color cool stuff inside your organization. An authentic culture is what people want. They want the beauty, they want the brokenness, they want the vulnerability, they want the excitement, they want the dream. They want all of that and there's only one place that comes from. That comes from authentic, humble, vulnerable, inspiring leadership.

Wendy Roop: 15:18

Yeah, and so it's you know, you discovering, as a leader, your why right internally, and then also being able to then therefore show up for others and help them discover that for themselves, yeah, and you'll never have it all.

Scott McGohan: 15:34

I've even told people if you think you have it all figured, you should buy a helmet, and if you're really noble, you should buy everyone you love a helmet, because life is gonna suck and it's gonna hurt. So we're just always be a continuous learner I love that okay, go ahead, karen I.

Karen Benoy: 15:54

I just had like this vision of you're, you're, you're responsible as a leader to create the environment for others, for them to find themselves. I think that's the big for me to define what leadership like authentic leadership, servant leadership. We get confused about that sometimes, that we think we've got to give to everyone else, but we really aren't giving anything other than just the truth of ourselves, which gives them the permission to be their truths right. And so when you think about that ability to come to yourself and do that introspection and live from inside out, Live from inside out, Notice how your organization shifted, Notice how now everyone else was able to start showing up more authentically and vulnerably.

Scott McGohan: 16:59

I'm so curious about your ability to now see that from the mirror perspective, when you started to make that change. Yeah, I mean, even like my son Taylor, he's on here helping us drive this whole thing and I'm sure there's part of him. That's like I never met that dad. What's he? What's he talking about? You know cause for a long period, even as a father, I was a hot mess. As a husband, I was a hot mess, and people loved me when I was unlovable.

Scott McGohan: 17:23

People encouraged me when I didn't deserve it at all, and it's probably only been in the last.

Scott McGohan: 17:31

I don't know 10 years where I like like I woke up. So I think, from a from an organizational standpoint, if you get really honest with yourself in regards to what inspires you honestly, not money things, what inspires you emotionally, like what wakes you up Because my gut says is what wakes you up If you were honest about it, what do we get other people and then? So how do you bring that to life and give permission for people to bring their whole selves to work in the midst of miscarriage and you know, kids getting bullied at school and marital issues and financial fear and um you know, addiction and all of the garbage you know, life's terms.

Scott McGohan: 18:19

How do you let people come to into the workplace with life's terms in their pockets, Because they're coming, whether you know it, life's terms. How do you let people come to into the workplace with life's terms in their pockets, Cause they're coming whether you know it or not? And if you ignore it, man, then people are just, they're just fake, you know. And then not only would they be, they'll be faking your building. Here's the worst thing about all of that they will take that fakeness back to their lives. So you will create plastic people, and plastic people aren't authentic, they aren't honest and you know deep down they're terrified. They're just scared.

Karen Benoy: 18:53

There's nowhere to go right. There's nowhere else for them to go now. They don't have a place to be safe at home. They spend most of their time at work.

Scott McGohan: 19:03

Have you ever been on a television set? Have you ever seen one? Uh?

Wendy Roop: 19:10

Disney world.

Karen Benoy: 19:11

Okay, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, like Saturday night live, yeah, yeah.

Scott McGohan: 19:15

So if you look at the TV set, I mean it's awesome. But if you're there and you can see beyond what the screen can see, you see all the wires and the tape and the you know Garbage, like you said.

Karen Benoy: 19:32

all the nonsense.

Scott McGohan: 19:34

All of the other stuff. And then they say lights, camera, action, you know, and then all the beauty shows up and that's all people see and there's like, oh, that's what I want. It's like, no, no, but that's not real.

Wendy Roop: 19:46

What's real.

Scott McGohan: 19:47

If you panned out and you saw, like all of the shenanigans all of it. You know, like the person standing there saying please clap, you know, applause they're holding up signs cue cards laugh, fake laughter, Like they push a button and they laugh, and and that's just.

Wendy Roop: 20:11

I don't know, that's just ugly.

Wendy Roop: 20:11

Karen, I love that you took that you know our conversation deeper, as usual, because you know when I think about and I and I would love for our audience to really hear this too, and I think this was your point in bringing this up is, you know, when I'm facilitating, especially like group sessions, so many times people come into those sessions and you know, and they're hearing it all and the first thing and me too right, like it's normal and it's human of us, we go into those and we're like, oh, such and such could really use this, and so, instead of that, you know, I ask and invite them to just like, just think about you right now, so talking about going inside, right, and that, just like our listeners today, until you've really had that opportunity to take this in for you and be able to step back and say how am I showing up, how am I responding, how am I making a difference or not?

Wendy Roop: 21:09

Right, all of those things for you personally, how and both of you have said this how in the world are we supposed to show up for anybody else? And so when we can do that, then there's the opportunity to step in, then there's the opportunity to step in in our most authentic way, to truly help other people go inside, and so forth. So, yeah, so I think it's just allowing ourselves to know I think we do it for different reasons, but knowing it's okay to spend time on us.

Scott McGohan: 21:35

I was with it when I first got involved in like a recovery spiritually and emotionally. I had someone come up to me and said I want you to pray this prayer in like a recovery spiritually and emotionally. I had someone come up to me and said I want you to pray this prayer and it's exactly what you just said, wendy, and it was father. Please remove everything I know about me, others and this world.

Wendy Roop: 21:53

Yeah.

Scott McGohan: 21:54

Open my heart and mind to a new experience about me, others, this world and you.

Wendy Roop: 22:02

And I was like that doesn't make any sense.

Scott McGohan: 22:03

It's like well, it doesn't have to make sense, Just do it. And I was like okay, right, I'm like all right, I'll just, I'll just do it. But what's really cool is we get when we do that, the judgment goes away judgment of others. Uh, and a new. A new opportunity for learning or seeing things differently.

Wendy Roop: 22:23

Yes.

Scott McGohan: 22:25

And I tell people all the time, like I'm on the recruitment committee, of faith, no faith is faith in something. So I'm not on the membership committee, I'm on the recruitment committee. So, it just opens your eyes and your hearts to a new experience.

Karen Benoy: 22:41

It just opens your eyes and your hearts to a new experience. I say this all the time that curiosity is your number one tool. That's exactly what you're just saying.

Karen Benoy: 22:54

It's emptying your cup coming to every experience, not being the knower but being the learner. And when we can shift our focus, we may have some intelligence right. We may be confident in that level of competence, but being just as confident in our incompetence. That is always an opportunity to learn. And so when do you know my? We're only ever, always learning, yes, and so when we can come and have an empty cup, like we're always open, we're always curious. There's no judgment, there's no room for judgment there. There's no room for for fear-based thoughts anymore there yeah, um, another.

Wendy Roop: 23:35

Another question that I have, as we're just talking again, scott, about your book and so forth is just, overall, what do you hope people get out of this book? Right, like, we've just talked about probably some of the things that are really important to you. But if you had to just say, like, what comes up for you and what's on your heart, what do you hope people get out of this book?

Scott McGohan: 23:59

Yeah, I think and you brought it up earlier, I think a lot of people say, well, I know somebody who needs this book, right. I'm like, yeah, I'm okay, but really what I hope somebody does? I mean, we were all so. So you're two like adult women, right, and I'm an adult male. But when you were little, you had dreams of who you wanted to be and big dreams of of what life was going to look like.

Scott McGohan: 24:24

And then life got squirrely and we, you know, at the end of the day, I think here's what we do we take our bravery and our courage and our ability to bring beauty in this world and we lock it in a room. And today, I think, the gift of vulnerability and transparency allows us to understand that that door is locked from the inside and we have the key and we can unlock it. We can lock it when we're 10. We can unlock it when we're 70. We have the ability to unlock that door Now, whether it's, you know, an organization that wants to do it, and obviously it's about organizational culture. But at the end of the day, I'm more, I have a lot more passion about individual culture, about that individual and that person, and giving people the permission to unlock that room and just let that beauty come alive.

Wendy Roop: 25:23

Well, because that is what talking about. Organizational culture, right? The individual culture is what is going to create that.

Karen Benoy: 25:31

Yeah, so you're going to help us figure this out together, right In some upcoming episodes, right, scott?

Scott McGohan: 25:40

I doubt it. No, I'm kidding.

Karen Benoy: 25:43

They do too.

Scott McGohan: 25:45

Yeah, but you got like you know too and like your skillset and you know the, the, the knowledge and expertise that you bring like to the table, like you're facilitating a lot of those conversations with different organizations, different people. So maybe you know my expertise is like what I saw at McGowan Brabender and my own transformation, but where you, where the two of you bring a lot of um, like talent is like you bring a lot of other industry factors and other people and all of that together. So your reference point is, in my opinion, is just just broader.

Karen Benoy: 26:21

It's just broader than than mine well, we're here because your story, and it really means a lot to us to see your framework, because that is what allows us to bring the story to light for others. We might have our own frameworks that's great. We might have our own philosophies yes, but leaning on you for this story is really. There's something beautifully simple about it we get to bring your story for everyone else to relate to.

Scott McGohan: 26:53

Wow, thank you.

Wendy Roop: 26:56

Speaking of for everyone else to relate to. If I were to ask you the question who's this book for? How would you respond?

Scott McGohan: 27:09

Oh man, I think it's for everybody. I think it's for every belly button out there. Now, there's probably really good deep, compelling parts of it. There's probably parts that just stink. But, like you said too, karen, too, if we're just continuous learners, there's some nuggets in there and there's some keys in there. You probably locked some crap up in a room somewhere and maybe this book just gives you some keys to just say, hey, I'm going to unlock that and I'm going to walk in that dark, scary room and I'm going to look around. I'm going to find the light switch and I'm going to turn it on and that that room is. Maybe it's not going to have a door anymore. I'm going to unpack it. It's almost like your garage. Well, now I'm going back to like. I love cleaning my garage and I've told this story before. Remember when your mom and dad asked you to clean your room? Remember those days when you took everything and you shoved it in the closet just to get?

Karen Benoy: 28:12

out the door Under the bed. Yeah, yeah.

Scott McGohan: 28:15

But remember the, maybe the one or two times where you really cleaned your room and your mom came in and she was like, wow and like, and you were proud to show her your room. And that's what the good, deep, hard, compelling work of working on our inner selves can bring our own individual joy and then the joy of others, like whoa, because at the end of the day, what we're called to be is. We're called to be attractive to others, not in a vain way, but in a way where people look at us and say you have something I don't have. How do I get that? How do I get that?

Wendy Roop: 28:54

Called to be a light.

Scott McGohan: 28:55

Correct.

Karen Benoy: 28:56

Yeah, but it's it's got to be authentic for it to be right. Energy attracts like energy, so, yes, I want what he's having.

Wendy Roop: 29:07

Yeah, and what I what I just envisioned when you were explaining that to Scott is, you know, because we have two ends of the spectrum here. We have the perhaps the CEOs or the C-suite right, who have been doing what they do and been leading for a long time and, you know, as we get to a certain point in our life, sometimes we can say I know all that stuff right, I don't need that, I know all that stuff. What I hear you saying is like this is for you right, no matter what, because we're always, as Karen says, always, we're always wait only, only always, ever, only always, ever, learning, and so it doesn't matter where we are.

Wendy Roop: 29:50

And then, and then, on the other end of the spectrum, we have these young leaders. I don't care whether they're titled or not, right, they have influence. So I can, you know, think of my, my kids, who are in their twenties, and so even they, right, can have that sense of I mean I don't need to know that stuff, can have that sense of I mean I don't need to know that stuff, right. But even at how wonderful, and now that we're at the point we are in our lives, when we think about the opportunity for young people to read books like this, to prepare them for being able to show up in their most authentic way and to be, as I like to say, be, a light to other people, so that's kind of like the whole spectrum.

Scott McGohan: 30:34

You know, in challenging them, when you see really like beauty come alive. I was on the golf course the other day and this father I know was playing with his son. He's a he's in law law school at Miami. So I meet him and I'm kind of like playing through them. So we're just kind of going through and he said I want you to meet my son. He walks up to me, he takes off his hat, he sticks his hand out and he said nice to meet you, mr McGowan, and I'm sitting down a cart. So I get out of the cart and I touch it, I touch. There's something uncanny about human touch. I touch his shoulder and I'm like, don't ever change. I touch his shoulder and I'm like, don't ever change, like what you just did was such a massive sign of respect.

Wendy Roop: 31:16

Yeah.

Scott McGohan: 31:17

And I appreciate it. But I'm telling you the difference you can make in other people's lives and showing others what respect looks like. And I, I, I turned, I could see his dad out of the corner of my eye. Oh, like I could just see it. I was like, oh, like his dad saw it and he heard that, right, and and so I could have just said hello, does that make sense?

Wendy Roop: 31:40

shake sand book boom yeah, but you recognized him right, like you.

Karen Benoy: 31:45

You saw him well, because he saw you.

Wendy Roop: 31:49

Yes.

Karen Benoy: 31:50

Because there was a mutual connection at that very instant, in moment in time, that there was a deep connection. It had no words, it didn't have to have words. You were just present together.

Scott McGohan: 32:04

Then I hit a five iron to about 20 feet, which felt pretty good.

Karen Benoy: 32:09

So there you go. You were present, good job, you were grounded.

Scott McGohan: 32:12

That's why yeah yeah, three putted for a bogey that didn't make me very happy um, so emotional.

Wendy Roop: 32:22

Oh, it's all good, it's so good. Um, so there's so much that we can dive into with this and I really feel like maybe this is a good place just to wrap up. Even you know the intro to what we're getting ready to dive into around your book, Scott, and perhaps this is a good place for me to ask the question, or how we say you know, let's go inside to our audience. When you just think about what we've talked about so far around, what your book is, what you hope people get out, who this is for, what would you invite people to think about with regards to you know any of that around. You know your book and what we've talked about so far.

Scott McGohan: 33:11

Like I'm a. I'm a big fan of journaling, cause I think anytime you can get these shenanigans out of our noggin on the paper that they they come alive. When they stay up there they get cobwebs and things get super wonky. So if if I was going to encourage somebody to do. I'm a big fan of T charts too, so one side of the chart would be when I was, when I was little, and I had these dreams about who I was going to be. And I'm not talking about being a doctor or a lawyer like that. I'm talking about who I wanted to be in regards to kindness, or I wanted to be a mom or a dad or those sorts of things. Who did I want to be emotionally? Where was I? Where's my happy place when I was little? And then the other side is where you are today and in its rawness, as honest as you get on the left side and as honest as you get on the right side, it's, it's the truth, is it just comes alive.

Scott McGohan: 34:11

It's like whoa, and, and the most important part is is some people would say, well, I'm too old or you know, I don't have time. Yeah, you do Got plenty of time. So it's really looking at like the truth and, matter of fact, in every single single chapter it has those deep, compelling questions. Let's go inside so they're just questions that ask yourself we're all beautifully made, so we all have a different story, we all have different reference points. They don't have to match mine, I don't have to match yours, but probably just begin around that deep, compelling work.

Wendy Roop: 34:46

Be curious. Yeah, that's a great invitation, thank you. Anything else to wrap us up, scott or Karen? No, but just thanks for having me.

Scott McGohan: 34:56

I really appreciate you too. I learn something every time I'm with you guys.

Wendy Roop: 35:02

Same Yep, absolutely, karen.

Karen Benoy: 35:05

Yeah, well, thank you. I feel like I'm enjoying the tag along, so thank you for having me.

Wendy Roop: 35:14

We're all tagging along right, Tagging along with each other.

Karen Benoy: 35:18

Yeah, awesome, my cup has run us over today.

Wendy Roop: 35:21

Thank you. Okay, well, thank you everyone, and we will see you next time.