00;00;00;00 - 00;00;30;16
Unknown
Welcome to Culture is An Inside Job, the podcast on building an authentic, engaging and inspiring culture. Hi, I'm Wendy Roop and along with my friends and co-hosts Karen Preston and Scott McGowan. We believe that building a healthy work culture starts with leaders like you. If you're ready to get real and dig deep into your own self-awareness, determine how you want to show up in the world and then take aligned action to transform your leadership and those around you.

00;00;30;18 - 00;00;57;26
Unknown
Then this podcast is for you. Now let's go inside. One thing we were talking off line before we jumped on here, and we have some exciting news. Like our podcast is out there in the world. Well, Wendy, like how many people listen to it? I don't know. Besides the three of us. Right. Super exciting, though. It is. You know, it's just sharing.

00;00;57;28 - 00;01;18;14
Unknown
Sharing our message and our thoughts and how we feel like we can we can help people and hopefully make a difference for people. And and, you know, I had the opportunity to listen to all of them. My mom and I did a road trip and and I'm just super proud of us. And the work that we have done.

00;01;18;14 - 00;01;43;07
Unknown
I mean, this has been a a work in progress. Right. And also. Right. It's it's also noticing that we're, as Karen likes to say, we're only ever, always learning. And so, you know, we just ask that you give us a little grace if you notice some you know, some things that we aren't complete experts yet. But guess what?

00;01;43;10 - 00;02;04;02
Unknown
We're trying our best and we're having fun, aren't we? I think one of the things I really liked was, do you mind sharing what your mom said? Oh, yeah. So my mom said, I mean, I'm not a a leader. And I mean, I don't literally listen to this kind of stuff. I really need to listen to this stuff.

00;02;04;04 - 00;02;31;12
Unknown
And first of all, I said, hello. You know, you're a major leader in your church and you led our family for how many years? You are a leader and you have huge influence. But what she said after that was but oh, my gosh, even I'm learning so much, you know, at this point in my life. And and she said, you know, you can you can just apply this to everyday life.

00;02;31;12 - 00;02;57;23
Unknown
I'm like, yes, You know, it isn't just for yes, it's about culture. Yes, it's about leadership. But that doesn't mean just in a corporation or organization, it's in anything. And all of us I know are really passionate about that, right, when we think about culture and leadership. We're talking about that from the perspective of all aspects of life and how we show up and how we can influence.

00;02;57;25 - 00;03;33;10
Unknown
Well, and I think it's one of the things, too, like in an organization can carry a culture. So far, but it's the individual belly buttons and their heartbeat and their pulse and their passion that make it come alive. So I love the fact that your mom brought that up for a couple of reasons. Number one is, I think for me, what it's really taught me is how to deal with life on life's terms, because life throws us some junk and maybe we watch an organization deal with it like change and adapting and all of those and drama.

00;03;33;10 - 00;03;58;06
Unknown
But and that's good for an organization. But I think when you teach individuals how to do that, that's where all this stuff really comes alive. And I love watching that. I love the fact that your mom brought that to life. Yeah. Yes. And there are a few, you know, friends and family members who don't necessarily play in the space that we do right there.

00;03;58;06 - 00;04;21;05
Unknown
They haven't been in corporate America and they've said similar things. And so it's just pretty cool to watch that and hear that. And so thank you, too, because obviously, you know, you bring so much to just what we do and and just the world in general. And I mean that very honestly and from the bottom of my heart.

00;04;21;05 - 00;04;46;05
Unknown
So thank you where you are. Welcome. You do as well. Well, and I want to acknowledge that it probably wouldn't be here. We wouldn't be here if it weren't for Scott. And so much that you've experienced. And we look forward to diving into more of that together with you. But this is really being able to to look back and and see.

00;04;46;05 - 00;05;14;20
Unknown
We know that when organizations, when leaders in the organizations don't have like that strong, healthy culture, what happens? And you got to see that. You got to experience that. You also got to transform into a healthy culture. And so we can't wait to talk more about that with you and learn more about what that means and how to help others be able to to build a more healthy culture.

00;05;14;23 - 00;05;39;16
Unknown
I think. Looking forward to it. Mhm. Yeah. Just being able to add, you know, I mean all of us have real life experiences, but especially what Scott's doing. Like it's very helpful. So if we look back to what we've been talking about, we've been talking about saboteurs and what holds us back. And so we've talked about several of the saboteurs.

00;05;39;18 - 00;06;09;13
Unknown
And today we wanted to jump in to the final three, and those final three are hyper rational, hyper vigilant and and victim. And for those of you that haven't heard us talk about this before, there's a body of work called positive intelligence. And if you go to positive a positive intelligence sitcom, you can go and there's a place that you can take the saboteur assessment.

00;06;09;13 - 00;06;36;01
Unknown
And so it gives you the results on honestly, what's holding you back in life from optimizing who you are and in moving forward. But but listen to our previous two episodes. If you want to hear more about what this what this assessment, what this this work is all about. So how about we dive into describing hyper rational today?

00;06;36;03 - 00;07;15;16
Unknown
Karen Sprague Sure. This is one of Karen's, and you'll hear it earlier and say louder, right? This is one of her louder saboteurs. And we all have those. And honestly, I really feel like that's when we know it's true that these show up for us is we we go, oh, GROSS Yeah. Like, as we're hearing this and but at the same time, again, the impact of this work to have the level of self-awareness and be able to connect with, oh, my gosh, that does come up for me.

00;07;15;16 - 00;07;38;22
Unknown
And yes, it does hold me back when it's loud. Like being rational isn't an issue right? We need we need that ability to be rational, but it's when we are add the hyper to it. So in any of these saboteurs, when we take them too far, that's when they're going to hold us. And then of course, others back too.

00;07;38;24 - 00;08;23;10
Unknown
So let's Karen, do you want to describe hyper rational and then I can add or do you want how to how do we want to approach this? Yeah. Oh, coming from my own my own hyper rational, let's see. It's funny. I just want to I want to kind of give a little bit of grace here to these saboteurs, because since we've been doing this work, one of the things that I've just started to recognize is, aside from the fact that there are all very positive attributes to each one of these saboteurs, but like what you just mentioned, Wendy, is the hyper part.

00;08;23;10 - 00;08;42;11
Unknown
It's the over indexing of them and the ability some some more recent information that I have started to explore is what is going on when we have really low saboteurs also. And when they're very low, There may be a little bit of defiance there. And I definitely want to be able to spend some time and get into that.

00;08;42;11 - 00;09;17;21
Unknown
But notice my hyper rush already. Okay, So here we we're hyper rational or with or with the need to understand everything and the need to be understood. And so this is where I think oftentimes we we see that hyper rational come out when in an organization when there is decisions that need to be made. Oftentimes this is the one that comes needing to, I'm going to say, be fit.

00;09;17;21 - 00;09;51;17
Unknown
And for all of you know what that means, it's just over thinking through it right? Again, it comes back to this strong need to understand the strong need to be understood. If you're the one trying to explain something or help everyone else, it's important for you that everyone else understands, right? It can slow things down. It can actually be a benefit because, of course, this is how we take time to be able to look at every aspect of it from A to Z.

00;09;51;20 - 00;10;15;25
Unknown
But you can notice that the over indexing really gets to that point of, well, how much really do we need to be asked this and is this really worth our time? Well, you know, that's debatable and again, how it can be misconstrued by others, especially when they're not hyper rational. It's very hard. It's it's very hard to kind of come together on that, Right.

00;10;15;27 - 00;10;47;03
Unknown
Yeah. Yes. And and I mean, maybe what we could do is I will describe it to from the perspective of the way positive intelligence also defines it. Because what you said, Karen, of course, is very true. And the other thing that I want to say, and I think we might have brought this up last time, but when we think of the saboteurs, we can always think of the positive side of it.

00;10;47;06 - 00;11;21;22
Unknown
What we invite you into is to really come from that place of what part of it holds us back. And so for this one, it's that intense and exclusive focus on the rational processing of everything, as you said, including relationships. And it can be we can be perceive when we have this loud, hyper rational as cold, distant and intellectually arrogant.

00;11;21;24 - 00;11;58;00
Unknown
And and so then there's characteristics and there's thoughts and there's feelings and there's justification, lies. And there's the original survival function that comes from every one of these. And so, Karen, especially because this is this is something that's loud for you as I'm going through some of these things for the hyper rational, maybe just talk about what really is true for you or what comes up for you and and what is what is difficult for you because of it.

00;11;58;00 - 00;12;27;19
Unknown
And Scott, as we're going through these, anything also that comes up for you around it, whether you ever experience any of these things or when you do experience because we all do to some degree or if you notice it right at work or around others and and kind of what that can create. And so some of these characteristics and Karen, I know you so well said this part like that intense and active mind.

00;12;27;26 - 00;13;01;13
Unknown
Yes right. It's like constantly going private don't let many people into my deeper feelings. Mostly show feelings through passion and ideas. Totally true. Yeah. I prefer to just watch the craziness around me and analyze from a distance. No, I like to get right into it. That's a different saboteur. That right? I will talk about that. I can lose track of time due to my intense concentration and then high penchant for skepticism and debate.

00;13;01;13 - 00;13;28;15
Unknown
So let's just pause there and say around the characteristic side of it, what comes up for you there? So Well, going back to the intellectual arrogance, I have to bring my beloved father into this because this is his famous statement I've probably mentioned this before, is and he says this still to this day, better to be thought ignorant than to open up your mouth and leave out all doubt.

00;13;28;18 - 00;13;50;29
Unknown
And so this is where my self-worth is tied to how intelligent I can show up. And if I going to talk my way through something, then I'd better know what the hell I'm talking about, right? So I have to be the smartest person in the room. And that has come across in many instances as that the intellectual arrogance.

00;13;50;29 - 00;14;11;06
Unknown
And so that's that's the X factor that you talked about before. It's like that if we go a place of self like reflection and like, well, where's that overindexed and having to find meaning in it, then understand and build that awareness and recognize that I get to dial it back. So we'll talk about some of that in a minute.

00;14;11;06 - 00;14;35;12
Unknown
But yeah, that's how it's tied to our self-worth, I think is is the most fascinating aspect because the minute that we can recognize that that's not true, then we can release the need to be that right. I love that you just brought that up because that is the exact question I was thinking. I'm like, Should I ask this now?

00;14;35;12 - 00;15;03;15
Unknown
And I'm like, yes. So it is, you know, for those listening to, it's what is the benefit of us being aware, right? Becoming self-aware and then reflecting on is that's like the next step of this, some of these saboteurs. And so for you, when you were became more aware and for you, you know, over the last years you have been to work and progress it is.

00;15;03;18 - 00;15;26;15
Unknown
But what but what is the benefit of it? And I know I heard you just say that, right. You're able to say, okay, now that is that is not where I need to put my self-worth to talk more about that. Yeah, I think it's often times where most of us find ourselves. It's in reflection after we screwed up.

00;15;26;19 - 00;16;17;11
Unknown
All right. Where after we came into the conversation as needing to be hyper rational, let's say, and that moment of opportunity to reflect and say, Oh, yeah, that felt a little icky. Or maybe that was all came on too strong. Or maybe I was shoving this down someone's throat. So that awareness afterwards is the moment where I can say now, instead of having to shame myself and feel guilty about it, I have the opportunity to and the word responsibility comes up for me in all of these saboteurs, because I don't want I don't want us to think that responsibility is us having to take that level of shame and guilt responsibility.

00;16;17;13 - 00;16;41;22
Unknown
But I do have the power now, the ability to respond. So taking that word responsibility now and reframing it into I have the ability to respond puts me in a very different position. And that's the self power that I can come more let's refer to is as maybe less overindexed and more integrating with these saboteurs. Which saboteur might I want to lean in to release?

00;16;41;22 - 00;17;05;18
Unknown
That's that hyper rational, right? Maybe I need to be a bit more of a pleaser and recognize, hey, other people have thoughts in here too, right? Maybe I need to be a bit more of. I don't know. We could talk about the ways to release, but just the idea here for me was once I had that self-awareness, what how do how do I get to respond now?

00;17;05;23 - 00;17;31;14
Unknown
Right. What do we get to learn if we're only ever always learning? Yes. Yes. I love that. And then if we thought about I think you've really kind of talked about some of the thoughts that that come up for you, but feelings frustrated with others being emotional and not rational enough. And yet you mentioned that, you know, earlier, too, and then feeling different alone, not understood.

00;17;31;17 - 00;18;11;08
Unknown
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And often skeptical or cynical about about situations. What comes up for you around just feelings that come up for you. Anything about that? Well, I keep my cynicism to myself. Wait, did I just say that out loud? You sound a bit counter-intuitive. Contradictory, but yeah, I would say yes. And until we have that ability to kind of go deep enough and say, Oh, yeah, okay, I'm willing to look at that a little differently now.

00;18;11;08 - 00;18;36;14
Unknown
And maybe that is the way that comes across from other people's perspective. But I tell you is really hard for me in the beginning. Oh, that was really icky to look at myself every morning in the mirror and be like, Hmm, yeah, that's you. And then start to love me of have that self-love and self-acceptance and recognize that, okay, I get to learn something here.

00;18;36;14 - 00;18;55;18
Unknown
I get to work with this doesn't have to limit me. And I really do think that is the truth for all of the work that we've been talking about so far. Right? We've been talking about the levels of leadership and in saboteurs and so forth. The more that we can become aware of it, the more we can do something about it.

00;18;55;18 - 00;19;20;12
Unknown
If it's not serving us right, how is it serving us or others? And if not, okay, well, then how do I want to how do I want to shift? Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, I think a lot of it's just I talk about this a lot is building that discernment muscle, right? Building that ability to peel back on the fear based thought like, well, why is this the way that I was thinking and feeling?

00;19;20;14 - 00;19;44;16
Unknown
Of course, it's because I'm wrapped up in my time, my self-worth by my my chain around my neck is is tied only to, you know, how much I'm I joke about. Do you remember flavor? Flavor. Yeah. And now he has this big clock. Then I joke with my clients all the time about this is the this is how much we're putting into that.

00;19;44;18 - 00;20;16;06
Unknown
That's. That's our reward. That's our badge of honor, so to speak. Keeping us way down and and so, yeah, letting go of that, not necessarily needing to to tie our self-worth to that. Right. The intellectual being, being the smartest one in the room isn't you know it's, it's not helpful. Yeah. Yeah. Scott what comes up for you on this when you hear us talk about the hyper rational and all that?

00;20;16;06 - 00;20;39;09
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, it's. Well, I think one of the things, too, Karen, is, I mean, you're brave enough to say that I got that from my father. So you've done some exploring. Most people love your day. Might not be brave enough to admit that. Or even gone back in time to figure out where that came from. But as I'm listening to both of you, I was in a golf shop with a with a with a guy.

00;20;39;09 - 00;21;06;08
Unknown
And and I said, that's a cool blue shirt. And he said, It's purple. I said, No, it's blue. He said, I'm colorblind. And then for a minute, as I was listening to you, like, I can't explain to him, right, that it's purple. I can't explain blue to somebody who's colorblind. Like, I can try, but it's virtually impossible. And so when you say, like, hyper vigilant, like what?

00;21;06;09 - 00;21;27;13
Unknown
Like what does that mean and how does that impact? Most people would say, well, I'm like, I'm not like that. And then if you like, look. And so I would encourage people to go on and take the survey and look in regards to like where you are on that spectrum, because culturally the impact on other people is really important.

00;21;27;21 - 00;21;53;14
Unknown
But even more important than that is the impact on yourself. So how am I getting paid back by doing that, getting paid back maybe through ego or whatever those whatever those issues are and then how am I holding other people back when this behavior comes alive in me? And I just think it's I think it's fascinating because, you know, my dad was the same way as if I wasn't a big sports guy.

00;21;53;16 - 00;22;16;01
Unknown
And as I couldn't talk to him about the Reds and, you know, maybe I could, but I held that against him. Does that make any sense? And so every time I would talk to him, I always make sure that all my facts like lined up. So I was like, articulate and I was like, accurate and I wanted to make sure, you know, that this was correct and everything was kind of lined up.

00;22;16;04 - 00;22;42;17
Unknown
But when I get around strangers or I'll just I mean, I'll free flow it. I mean, it's just now that could be I don't think I'm a skeptic, though. So hyper vigilant could sound like massive skepticism. Yeah, in my opinion. Yeah. That's good stuff. Go ahead, Wendy. Sorry. No, I was just going to say you said something earlier, Scott.

00;22;42;17 - 00;23;13;16
Unknown
And then based on what Karen was saying, that I just feel like it's really important out of support of our listeners to say this. You know, Karen and I and Scott honestly are fortunate enough that in the work that we do as coaches and and Scott, just as a leader in leading an organization and the things that he does to to have this work around continuing to develop ourselves around us constantly.

00;23;13;18 - 00;23;39;18
Unknown
For those of you that don't typically step into this, and so you have this level of self-awareness, as Karen, as we talked about it, it can feel icky. And if you don't give yourself grace and then find support for yourself around what to do with that information. So yes, sitting it as a sitting in it is part of it.

00;23;39;18 - 00;24;03;14
Unknown
And reflecting on it. But then what to do with it and how to move forward is a whole nother thing. Right? And that's where good coaches come into play. Good leaders who lean into mentors, sometimes therapists, right. Also. And so I just want to make sure that we're, you know, asking our listeners to if they need support in that, you know, to get that.

00;24;03;14 - 00;24;42;28
Unknown
So anything else, Karen, that you want to say about hyper rational now? Because otherwise I would be it. Okay. Moving right along then. Yeah. Okay. So hyper vigilant is another one of our saboteurs and hyper vigilant I believe is really I was just looking at our results and it's you know, on the lower end and so Karen Mike maybe this is a time to to to talk about that.

00;24;42;28 - 00;25;20;24
Unknown
But let me let me describe it first. So hyper vigilant is that continuous, intense anxiety about all the dangers and what could go wrong. So it's a vigilance that can never rest. Some of the characteristics might be, you know, always anxious and chronic doubts about self and others. Extraordinary sensitivity to danger signals might seek reassurance and guidance and procedures and rules and authorities and institutions suspicious of what others are up to.

00;25;20;26 - 00;25;43;22
Unknown
Some of the thoughts and I say this because it's probably easy for people to connect with is when is the other shoe going to drop? So we're always like, Yeah, that's great. But you know, when something going to go wrong and I want to trust people, but I find myself suspicious of their motives. So, you know, just feelings of, again, skeptical, cynical, often anxious and highly vigilant.

00;25;43;24 - 00;26;08;07
Unknown
Some of the justification lies might be if I don't look out for them, who will? And life is full of dangers. So first of all, what comes up for the two of you around hyper vigilant, whether it's about yourself or whether it's about what you notice and those that may come up for you. When you think of hyper vigilant based on that explanation.

00;26;08;07 - 00;26;35;13
Unknown
I mean, two words can come to life and it's one is codependency and the other one is massive control or just it's I need control. And I really like the. What were you brought up earlier, Wendy, is you know, that maybe you can turn the conversation differently by asking really compelling questions like where's this coming from? Does that make sense?

00;26;35;13 - 00;27;04;02
Unknown
Like, where is this coming from? Why is this important to you? And just trying to really ask compelling, deep questions to help understand, because we don't know the episodes in people's lives that that's obviously triggered them for this control and codependency on, you know, people, places and things. And if we're maybe we give people the space to talk about that, maybe we can learn something about them.

00;27;04;04 - 00;27;29;28
Unknown
And then also about, you know, about ourselves. Because I've met people in my life that, I mean, they live like that. And then there's a part of me, it's like I feel sorry for them. I'm like, Wow. Like, why do you let all this stuff control you? I mean, it's it'll, it'll wear you out. It's exhausting. And it goes back to what even, you know, Karen Story's story about, you know, hyper rational.

00;27;29;28 - 00;27;53;12
Unknown
It's goes back to that original survival function. And and for people that have a really loud hypervigilant is because they, you know, really felt the need. They they didn't feel like they had a sense of safety and security. And so, you know, you know, I like how you brought up the control aspect, Scott, because and also, what are you afraid of?

00;27;53;14 - 00;28;20;06
Unknown
You know, all of these are based on fear. All of our saboteurs, but they come from different places. And so even though control, it might sound like, okay, they're when we're hyper vigilance because we're trying to control something, this one is because it's because I don't feel secure and I don't feel safe. And so. Exactly right. Going back to what is that question to ask yourself is what is what?

00;28;20;08 - 00;28;51;26
Unknown
What is it that I don't feel safe or secure about? So, Karen, what's coming up for you around this? I have a few things here. One is I've seen this show up with my clients in a couple of different ways. Interestingly. One is that they're they're wired to pay very close attention to risk in their responsibility, in their role, or they're really good at that.

00;28;51;26 - 00;29;22;19
Unknown
And this increases their heightened sense of vigilance. Right. So someone who who is, you know, a risk management management, you know, officer or someone that's a chief control officer or something like that has to be very vigilant. Right. They have to be able to pay attention to risk. The other thing that's coming up for me is for those who have very low vigilant Scott, you have very low vigilance.

00;29;22;21 - 00;29;46;27
Unknown
I have very low vigilance. This makes us fairly fearless. We don't necessarily look at things as risky. Right. And that can sometimes lend itself as a bit of a problem for us. But going back to what you were just saying, Wendy, in terms of the question, what is it that you're not feeling secure about? Where do you feel unsafe?

00;29;46;29 - 00;30;07;11
Unknown
My favorite empowering question for the Vigilant would be what is the worst thing that could happen? And if you're able to take them all the way out. Right. And this kind of goes back to that survival. You know, it's it's it's there's a fear of dying part to this, too. Right. If we get that all the way out, then okay, What?

00;30;07;13 - 00;30;40;04
Unknown
So then what? Right. So then what? And the more that we can walk that vigilant out to see all the potential fears that that they're justifying, that they've created the story in their heads because they literally can see it. They see it as a reason to be fearful. Then they start to dial back that fear and recognize that there's nothing to be really afraid of, even if it is that worst case scenario right?

00;30;40;06 - 00;31;18;06
Unknown
So, Scott, in terms of how hyper vigilant does not show up for you, you were talking about this before. Where might there be? Where has this not you know, let's talk about like under indexed, where has it been that you have been willing to walk into the fire completely brave with no fear, and that having a slight bit of vigilance might have been somewhat useful?

00;31;18;08 - 00;31;48;00
Unknown
Oh, my. There's probably a thousand example tailors, probably like you have a few too. Yeah, like so yeah. You know, I can't think of like one specifically, but I watch, you know, like I'll watch my wife, like if we're going to an airport or going somewhere that, like, things have to be lined up and I'll watch her like behind me, like, where's he going?

00;31;48;04 - 00;32;15;19
Unknown
Like, what's going on? That's not the right way. That's not the right way to the gate. And I'm just like, Oh, we're going I might look up later. Yeah. And well, when, when we were in Scotland with my dad and my brother and Taylor, it was it was just kind of, Hey, I think I know what I'm doing, you know, and you get 75% of the way there and like, I don't know what I'm doing and I'm at my flight and all of this stuff.

00;32;15;19 - 00;32;43;16
Unknown
So that that's probably, you know, it's really interesting. Doesn't like cicadas. I mean, Laura and I got married. It was like cicadas season. It took like 13 years for they were singing for you. You remember that? Because I think what really happened is COVID woke up all the cicadas of this trait, inhumanity and incredible lot of fear. Oh, huge amounts of fear.

00;32;43;16 - 00;33;19;22
Unknown
And just all of the different comments and, you know, shenanigans and, you know, all of that stuff just rose. It's like rose its head in really ugly ways. Really ugly ways. And so, Wendy, what would be that empowering question for for that fear? I'm just sitting here being I'm being wowed by our conversation because I'm I'm even thinking back, I can't help myself to think back to hyper rational because mine's at the bottom.

00;33;19;24 - 00;33;49;28
Unknown
So I like having thoughts about that. I'm like, my problem is I don't think I'm smart enough. And it seriously is like I struggle with that side. So like, that's a whole nother conversation. Interesting. Anyway, well, what was your question? What so like in thinking in here, just, you know, you're vigilant is around midway, so it's probably you're able to recognize when you when you when you're able to leverage it and when you know you need to dial it back.

00;33;50;01 - 00;34;18;09
Unknown
Yeah. But for us who have it, they're really low. And for those in the world who it's very high, there's probably two different questions, right? Scott Because I think for me being a very low, hyper vigilant and you being a zero hyper vigilant, we probably could be okay. Yeah. You know, how do we you know, where how is it how can we leverage the strength?

00;34;18;09 - 00;34;48;14
Unknown
So for me, this is my mantra is you're not going to see me be that afraid of anything. I'm I'm not that afraid. I'm fearless. And that is defiant. Right? So a bit of defiance there for for you then and in me when I'm on this side of it, because I can also speak to the other side. But, you know, maybe even like, where is the risk in this?

00;34;48;16 - 00;35;19;04
Unknown
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Slow down enough to look and think. Where? Might there be some risk? Yeah. And then I loved your question earlier, or I don't remember Scott or Karen, whether you said it, but what is the worst thing that could happen? And honestly, there is a period of time in my life that I promise you, my hyper vigilant was probably at the top and and so that is a question I ask myself.

00;35;19;06 - 00;35;51;04
Unknown
And, and sometimes it sometimes it's the only thing like I it would help me to go there and I think that question would help me then to move forward. Mm hmm. Right. Because you could I can certainly get stuck in the hypervigilant where, you know, it's almost like having daycares, you know, like just constantly thinking about, okay, what's going to happen, what's, you know, that type of thing versus, okay, let myself go there.

00;35;51;04 - 00;36;13;05
Unknown
What is the worst thing that could happen? All right. Yep. Now I know that it could. Now can I move forward? So, yes, I think I think the there is a question for both sides of that. Mm hmm. Yeah, I think the Serenity Prayer is like a really beautiful example of that. Yeah. So grant me the serenity to accept the things that cannot change, and then the courage to change the things that I can.

00;36;13;05 - 00;36;34;19
Unknown
And the most beautiful one is the wisdom to know the difference between the two. And, you know, especially it will be on the golf course. And, you know, someone saw the market down, markets down 300 points like, yeah, well you do about it. You know, you decided to play on that field. You knew the risks. I mean, what are you like?

00;36;34;19 - 00;36;52;14
Unknown
What are you going to do about it? You're in it. You know, if you want to play the game, then jump out of the market and you know, you have no control over it. None. And then why is that? Why is that wig you out? And what's really interesting is in that exciting you get paid back through that.

00;36;52;17 - 00;37;11;02
Unknown
No, I don't. I'm like, yes, you do. You get you're getting paid back. Well, that sound, that's ridiculous. I'm like, if you're but you're getting paid back and the exploration is understand like, how am I getting paid back? And why is that important for me? Because otherwise you wouldn't you wouldn't behave like that. Does that, does that make sense?

00;37;11;05 - 00;37;39;13
Unknown
You Yeah. So don't bring up victimhood. I know. I'm like the mayor of victimhood. And let me get my gavel because I call court here in about. Yeah, I think so. What do you think? Do you think we should go like, describe it and then maybe we can kick off our next. I like that idea. I think we we we plant a seed.

00;37;39;13 - 00;38;03;02
Unknown
Yeah, let's plant a seed. Okay, perfect. So just to describe it, none of us like to be a victim, right? That even was in our seven levels of leadership when we talked about that. At the same time, at one point or another or in some aspect of our life, I think we we probably all in some way had this hold us back.

00;38;03;02 - 00;38;37;14
Unknown
But so it's the emotional and temperamental just as a way to gain attention and affection. And it's an extreme focus on internal feelings, particularly painful ones. And it's that the martyr streak. And so when we are in this mode, you know, if we're criticized or misunderstood, you know, we tend to withdraw. We might pow, we might sulk. When things get tough, we want to crumble and give up.

00;38;37;16 - 00;39;09;06
Unknown
And just sometimes also almost a repressed rage results in depression and anxiety and then just that constant fatigue. So, yeah, so I we planted the seed about what it is, and I think this one probably deserves a little bit more attention and let's jump into that when we get back together next time. So what is the one we talk about?

00;39;09;06 - 00;39;34;00
Unknown
Let's go inside and our listeners to, you know, do some of their own work. What what might that be? What might we ask them to do this episode? Yeah, that's I think that in order to build that discernment muscle and recognize where some of this fear might be getting in your way, what would be your empowering question or yourself to release that?

00;39;34;00 - 00;39;42;26
Unknown
Saboteur? Yeah, that's great. Terrific. With that, we'll see you next time.