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Speaker 1
Welcome to Culture is an inside job. The Podcast on building an authentic, engaging and Inspiring Culture. Hi, I'm Wendy Roop and along with my friends and co-hosts Karen Preston and Scott McGowan. We believe that building a healthy work culture starts with leaders like you. If you're ready to get real and dig deep into your own self-awareness, determine how you want to show up in the world and then take aligned action to transform your leadership and those around you.

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Speaker 1
Then this podcast is for you. Now let's go inside. Welcome, everyone.

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Speaker 2
How are you?

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Speaker 1
Great. How are you?

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Speaker 2
You know, it's a great day. It's great to be heard and then great to be seen.

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Speaker 1
So, yes, good to see you in here. You, Scott. Good to see you. Karen, how are you?

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Speaker 3
I am great. I am so happy to be here.

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Speaker 1
Excellent. We've got Taylor in the background. Thank you, Taylor, as always. Welcome back to Culture is an Inside Job podcast. We are unbelievably talking. Let's see, what are we? Episode five. Right. Episode five. So we've been talking about the last couple of episodes. We introduced Energy Leadership, which comes from a work at work from Bruce Snyder, which is he's the founder of Ipac Institute for Professional Excellence and Coaching.

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Speaker 1
And so today we thought that we would continue on that path. And I think we'll start. Karen How about we start with just a recap of level one and two that we were talking about, you know, last episode. Sounds good.

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Speaker 3
Yeah, absolutely. So to kind of get back, let's let's kind of go back if you're okay, Wendy, to to talk about catabolic and anabolic. Right. And that that catabolic energy, those lower levels of energy are that destructive or damaging kind of energy that that really down to the cellular level has an impact and that the higher levels, the anabolic energy are more constructive and creative.

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Speaker 3
This is like more we stay away from positive and negative because they're a little judgy. So if we go back down to these one and two levels, we see this is the catabolic energy and we all know these levels. We've been here, we feel them. We understand, while we may not understand that we're there, but the awareness that we're trying to help our listeners built here is about how we're showing up.

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Speaker 3
So, so level one is I lose. It's that feeling really helpless and hopeless. I always talk about it as like it's the can't get out of bed mentality and you may be out of bed, but it's just all you're thinking about is the weight of the world on your shoulders. And it's really hard to to move from this space.

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Speaker 3
Right? Mentally move, physically move, emotionally move. We get very stuck here. Level two is you lose. So there's more movement. But it's a lot of conflict where full of anger, resentment, frustration, maybe blaming everyone else for the circumstance that we're in. Defiance. Right. We find all of these very damaging emotions in this level to space with conflict. And today, I think you maybe come back to you here, Wendy, if there's anything else that we should add to the level one and two and catabolic an antibiotic before we move into more of the anabolic energies that will that we'll touch on today.

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Speaker 3
What's what are your thoughts?

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Speaker 1
Yeah. Thanks, Karen. You know, the one thing that's just coming up for me is just reminding our audience that in all of these levels, there's no good or bad or right or wrong. Right. And so as we're talking about the catabolic level, it's not that it's bad or wrong, it's that how long are we staying there and when?

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Speaker 1
When you, Karen were talking about, you know, how it can literally break down our body and our mind and our spirit and other people. Right. That's if we if we stay in it for no longer than just a short period of time. In the short, though, right. There can be advantages to it. We just don't want to stay there.

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Speaker 1
So I just want to remind everybody about that. So we don't look at it as as positive or negative or good or bad or right or wrong.

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Speaker 2
Mm hmm.

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Speaker 3
So to come back here, Scott, if there's anything that you wanted to kind of add or play on with this level one and two before we jump into this, a little bit higher level. Higher levels.

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Speaker 2
Well, I you know, I think one of the things that I'm thinking about, too, is it's almost like the process of like grief. So in other words, like, I could be in a spot where, you know, I'm in level one and level two because I'm really I'm just hurting and that's okay. Right. The issue is, quite frankly, is, you know, we have to understand our impact, the impact that we have on ourselves.

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Speaker 2
As you said, internally, what it's doing to our body, our bodies being torn down. Right. It's not growing. And therefore, if we take that to other people, it's very likely we're tearing them down. Right. But but if if if there's an episode or an issue going on in my life that like, I don't always have to be in a good mood.

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Speaker 2
I can be in that space. I think the secret is for this. And what I love about this is, do you know where you are? Like I am. I am here. Mm hmm. And then you have and I think what I love about the two of you is you have the tools to to dig out of the hole.

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Speaker 2
That whether you put yourself in that hole or circumstances, put you in that or other people put you in that hole, do you have the tools and the resources to to climb out of that? To climb out of that hole?

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Speaker 3
I love that. Thank you for sharing. Grief. Definitely is a very unique process. And there are a lot of these levels that are that are tied to some of the process of grieving. That is way beyond my pay grade. My pay grade. And for those that this is this would be I would say this is good enough to start as a as a place for anyone who's going through grief, to be build awareness, like you said, understand where you are, have that level of really high level of awareness and acceptance and be able to acknowledge yourself in that space.

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Speaker 3
That is that is really, truly the gift.

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Speaker 2
You know, I was talking to somebody about their parent, took care of everything and all their funeral arrangements before they passed. I mean, everything every detail and a psychologist said, that's noble, but it eradicates the the grieving process.

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Speaker 3
It makes sense. That's part of the process. You sound like part of that.

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Speaker 2
Like, you know, I don't want to stand in line and like like give these people hugs and I don't like I don't want to do it. And that's what you have.

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Speaker 3
To do it.

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Speaker 2
Yeah, you have to go through that. And then their advice back to that, like, like I understand like you want to help people do that, but you're actually you're robbing people of that process. And if you don't if you don't go through that process, then, as you said, caring too, then you live in this world of resentment and just all kinds of crazy stuff.

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Speaker 2
So I thought that was really interesting.

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Speaker 1
That is interesting. And and it just that's the exciting thing about our podcast because I think there's a space for that at some point, right? Diving a little bit more into into grief because it's just not when somebody passes either, right? We're going through all kinds of grief just and things that we've lost over the last couple of years.

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Speaker 1
So I think energy, the seven levels of leadership and energy leadership is something that, you know, we can even reference back to when we're talking about that as well as some other things.

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Speaker 2
So yeah.

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Speaker 1
Awesome.

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Speaker 3
So before we go into level three, I just wanted to acknowledge what you were just talking about here. Scott. It made me think of a butterfly in its cocoon, right? And that's a process. And it's a painful process for that little caterpillar. Right. We can't imagine. But think about the change, the metamorphosis, that if we were to poke the outside of their cocoon, that it may prohibit their necessary experience to transform, like thinking about it from that perspective.

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Speaker 3
You're right. If we interject that process that is so critical in anyone's process of healing or.

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Speaker 2
Of.

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Speaker 3
Reconciliation or of anything forgiveness, think about it. Anything that we we may interject our poke ourselves into that that we may be prohibiting that. But the ideal part of the process. Right.

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Speaker 1
And I love that you brought that up, Karen, because that completely makes sense in all of these levels that we're talking about. Right. Even these lower levels, like it's we have to go through these things. And like we talked about, like the key and the secret is the self-awareness. But we have to go through it. We can't just you know, if we try to, quote unquote, skip, you know, the way that we feel in the way, you know, and think in some of these levels.

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Speaker 1
We're not truly dealing with what's going on within us. We're just ignoring it. And guess what? It's going to keep coming up over and over again and we're not going to grow. So yeah, I love how you describe that.

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Speaker 3
Yeah. So level three, interestingly here, this is a this is a crossroad really where you're coming out of one and two. The mindset here is I win. And so in that whatever it takes for me to get my win, I really don't care about anyone else. If they lose, it's fine. As long as I can get my win, they can see there's still a little bit of catabolic energy here right?

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Speaker 3
However, we moved from a loss to a win, so that's this a little bit of anabolic energy we find ourselves here very often because many of us are not willing to stay in one and two long enough, like we said, to consider, why am I here? Why do I feel helpless? Why do I feel angry? We just think it's bad.

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Speaker 3
And so I don't want to be there. So we get ourselves in the coping and rationalizing mentality of, I'm going to do whatever it takes for me to get my win, and that's it. And I'm good. And then we realize that we stay good enough, right? This is where we don't ever reach those higher levels. We just stay right and good enough.

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Speaker 3
We're coping and rationalizing, keeping ourselves out of one and two because they're they suck. They they're too difficult. It's not worth it, whatever it is. Right.

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Speaker 1
We're tired of that stuff.

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Speaker 3
Yeah. You hear me? Rationalizing, right? I got to do whatever it takes to get my win and we're there's a lot of us feeling this right now because we're tired of this, the situation that we're in, the worldly situation with so many different issues. Right. Like the VUCA world that we've talked, you know, some people refer to as volatile, uncertain, chaotic and ambiguous.

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Speaker 3
Right. In a VUCA.

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Speaker 2
World, aka what's a VUCA? Mm. Yeah, the.

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Speaker 3
Acronym is volatile.

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Speaker 2
Yep.

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Speaker 3
Uncertain, chaotic and ambiguous.

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Speaker 2
And I've never heard that before.

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Speaker 3
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we're in the middle of this, right? So, yeah, this is our level three.

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Speaker 2
Sounds like a lava lamp, right? Like a vehicle.

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Speaker 3
And we are in the middle of a VUCA layup and the Heat is on.

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Speaker 2
You go sing it. You're I don't.

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Speaker 1
Think we're allowed to do that on these things.

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Speaker 2
I'm sure.

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Speaker 3
Sure, sure.

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Speaker 2
Okay.

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Speaker 1
Yeah. And when you're, when you're talking to Karen from the anabolic perspective, the reason, you know, we're stepping into the anabolic is because that core emotion is really and you mentioned this forgiveness, you know, whether it's forgiveness of ourselves or forgiveness of of somebody else and cooperation. And so that's where it steps in as well as and you said this, you know, we don't let others get in the way of what we want to accomplish.

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Speaker 1
We're really starting to release that negativity. You know, the challenge, though, right, or the disadvantage, however you want to look at that is we can be manipulative when we're in this very manipulative. Very right. Because it is self concerning to. So whatever we need to do to feel like we're moving forward. I feel like this is a very self self-protective level, right?

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Speaker 1
And probably lacking trust and and we, we promise things, but they're not necessarily from the heart. We're in this level as well.

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Speaker 2
So yeah, you know, it's interesting too, because I think and you know, obviously, you know, I'm not a doctor. I'm not you know, I don't have the expertize that the two of you have. But I do think that our brains, natural tendency is to look at most, if not all circumstances as a threat, utter flight. Yeah. I mean, like all of our job, our bodies, number one job is to protect us.

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Speaker 2
Number one, whether it be sight or sound. And that skepticism is could be like really detrimental to us. And I love what you said about moving like to this level. And it's the ability to cooperate, right. Which is probably dropping blame, shame, victimhood like dropped like at least trying to drop some of those things. Yes. Mhm. Yeah. But your motive isn't virtuous right.

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Speaker 2
Yeah. You think it sounds virtuous and you might be very good and it might sound virtuous, but in your heart it's not virtuous at all.

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Speaker 3
It's just we are only focused on what you can do to get yourself out of that one and two. And you haven't seen the opportunities that are above you in that level of energy that we will talk about at some point in the future. But again, or that we've touched on even the idea of getting to an opportunity and a level five when when you're not there, you're not there.

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Speaker 3
It's not it's not about anybody else. But the cooperative level is really only about whatever it's going to take for you. Manipulating the way for you. Right. If you've got to push other people down, it's okay. You don't it's you rationalize that you've justified it. There's still a lot of seated level one and level two that come from why we stay in level three right?

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Speaker 1
Yeah. And if we talk about a couple examples, one in Scott, I think we talked about this, I think you might have brought this up in one of our last episodes was how can we use this advantageously in a meeting, right? So versus and you were describing this right going into the meeting and in even though you already have your mind made up on what needs to happen from probably a business perspective, sometimes you can go in and, you know, maybe it's the pleaser or whatever in you that you like, Oh, I need to make sure I hear everybody's voices.

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Speaker 1
But at the end of the meeting you're like, Well, this is what we're going to do. Thanks for your ideas, but and the damage that can cause. But if we can come in from that level three perspective and say, I hope you come along, I want you to understand, I hope you understand type of thing. But at the end of the day, this this is what's this is what's got to happen.

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Speaker 1
That's a level three conversation, level three meeting. So you're being authentic to really what's going on instead of, right. Trying to please or or pretend like anybody has a voice in it when they really don't have a voice in it. What comes up for you there, Scott? Anything else in compare like different than what you talked about last time on.

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Speaker 2
When we know it's probably in a very similar to the only thing that came to my mind was like a firefighter, right? So a professional building is on fire. Like we don't have a lot of time. Like we're not going to talk about how we feel, right? We have this situation going on. You know your role. I know mine.

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Speaker 2
We are moving. Does that does that make sense? Mm hmm. Oh, yeah. I was thinking about my daughter, like, growing up, like, you know, like she was. She would have this pouty lip, right? So if she lost it in a in a grocery store aisle. Right. And then and then the pouty lips, she would get her way. So she was in wanted to, but that pouty lip carried her.

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Speaker 2
That's three. Which means she got. Oh yeah. And that it and I know and I know my son did it too but the tardy lip was just like, you got to be kidding me. Except me probably five or six years to figure out what the patterns I know. What's going on here? Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 3
It work. That's all.

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Speaker 2
She cared about the other night.

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Speaker 1
Well, I'm sorry, Karen. Go ahead.

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Speaker 3
Go ahead.

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Speaker 2
No, I was just.

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Speaker 1
I was just going to say the other example we're talking about rational sizing, because that's what this is called, is the rationalize or so we really can rationalize our behavior in other people's behavior when we're in this mode.

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Speaker 2
So.

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Speaker 1
You know, rationalizing someone else's behavior might be well, I'm sure they didn't really mean it any way. Right. Or I'm sure they meant to get that in on time and they just forgot, you know, it's we just rationalize it because, again, we just want to move forward and don't want to be stuck in where we were with that at level one and level two.

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Speaker 1
Any other examples you can think of with the rationalization from either of you?

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Speaker 3
I loved your firefighter because this is corporate America right now. Like, so there's there are three different time dimensions in in organizations, right? It's the fires that we're putting out right now. It's the year end goals that we're trying to achieve. And it's that future five year forecast. We don't look at that well enough as organizations. We are literally stuck in firefighter mode.

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Speaker 3
So, yes, not only the the analogy, Scott, of a firefighter, but look at every leader out there that most anyone can can really relate to. This right now is I can all I got to do, I just have to keep my head down and focus on what's right here, right now. And that's the fire in front of me.

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Speaker 3
And so this is good, right? Like Wendy, you're saying this is an advantage because we got to put the fire out. But what's what's limiting in this is the fact that we can't think strategically enough about why is there a fire in the first place? Why am I keeping myself out of one and two? Right. And if we could shift that mentality just enough and we'll talk about what happens, what would that what take what does it take in order to create that shift?

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Speaker 3
But if we could make that shift, to be able to start thinking more strategically, how do we mitigate the fire? How do we prevent the fire? That's what we that's the objective of understanding, having this awareness of where we are right now, seeing, wow, I'm in the middle of just facing this fire and that's all I can do.

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Speaker 3
Well, is it really, truly all you can do? That's all you think you can do because you're coping. You're you're stuck in the coping and rationalizing of just seeing it from your lens. Now, if we put a different lens on this and we'll talk about what that looks like in an upcoming episode with level four and so forth, but amazing that you mentioned the firefighter because I think there are so many people.

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Speaker 3
And let's bring this back to culture right, Scott, take it away.

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Speaker 2
Well, it is I was thinking about that, too, is, you know, I think sometimes there's people that are addict two, one, two and three and peace and serenity is so far off that when they get it for a glimpse of time, they got to screw up because chaos is what they're drunk on and pieces are so foreign to them.

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Speaker 2
Yeah. That it's just an unfortunate and you know, unfortunately and you know an inside of of an organization and you brought this up as people. Well people most often do what they see and what they hear, what they see. And then, you know, believe it or not, two inside of chaos and inside of really tough situations. People want to be led.

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Speaker 2
They want to be led. So there are circumstances where we don't have a lot of time, too, for cooperation and collaboration. And yeah, we just need to line up our best assets and move forward and be willing to make mistakes fast, you know, make them for work, and then lastly, make them in a really safe place. And I think what COVID has really done for for organizations, which I kind of appreciate, is the fact that there's no playbook on past, on the past.

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Speaker 2
So no one can say, well, other companies did this. Well, I'm not sure. I mean, I'm not sure there are bunch of culture books when the Spanish flu hit America. Right, right there just there wasn't so there wasn't a reference point. So that the reference point that that if you're if you were a good leader, you were vulnerable.

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Speaker 2
Hey, I'm doing my best here, and I need the best out of you. Yeah, it's. It's not like I wrote.

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Speaker 3
The playing field.

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Speaker 2
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, that.

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Speaker 1
Goes back to, you know, what we're saying from the beginning. You know, that's why this work is so important. It is truly about self-awareness, and it's about the understanding that no matter where we are in these levels, that, you know, we have a choice. And so those people, Scott, that you were talking about, that sometimes they you know, it it's literally I refer to it as their operating system.

00;22;59;07 - 00;23;25;22
Speaker 1
They've been operating in that way for so long that it's just their natural being. And when they fall outside of that, they feel like something's off. Right. And so that's the beauty of why we I know Karen and I especially why we do what we do. We help people to really be able to step back and have an opportunity to see that, you know, where are you really get really real about how you're showing up.

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Speaker 1
And then guess what? You don't have to stay there if you don't want to. And that's that. QUESTION How is it serving you if it's not serving you and if it's not serving other people? What is the choice that you want to make in shifting your mindset?

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Speaker 2
Yeah, I think that I.

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Speaker 3
Think further to how is serving the organization as well right now. Right.

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Speaker 2
So yeah, I think for organizations too, as if if you were an organization that told people what to do, how to do it, when to do it before COVID, and you think that mindset is going to survive, you're dead in the water. Here's why. We're looking for 10 million jobs right now in this country and 6 million require college education.

00;24;13;05 - 00;24;45;16
Speaker 2
There's only 6 million people that are willing to work today and only 2 million of them have a college education. So I was on a panel with the director of Cardinal Health, and what was really interesting about that was the fact that where were these people are going to get their people is inside of your organization. So we need to stop telling, start asking, start giving people purpose, start with vulnerability, humility, all of these different things.

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Speaker 2
And instead of thinking you need to recruit outside like you better start recruiting inside because the world's coming inside your organization. And it probably starts with the energy that your organization has on the inside. You can trick a new hire, right? You can you can say how great it is. You can give them a great brochure, you can give them great benefits.

00;25;11;01 - 00;25;33;13
Speaker 2
But when reality hits their first day of work and they go and no one's there to greet them at the front door or my laptop, it doesn't work. But this looks used. I mean, all of that, it's the it's the tiny things. Things. And they're like, hey, like I was just sold a bill of goods here. And employees today have the ability they can tap out any second.

00;25;33;13 - 00;25;38;05
Speaker 2
You go get a job like today, not tomorrow, but like right now.

00;25;38;11 - 00;25;53;06
Speaker 1
So I love your attitude. Sky. It's I mean, it is it's we don't start shifting our mindset in that way in corporate America and, and in general. Yeah, I mean, we're, we're not going to be moving in the right direction.

00;25;53;07 - 00;26;19;28
Speaker 2
Right. And I think and I know we've got to, you know, kind of wrap up, but I think for most leaders, if they would seriously just consider how would you want your son or daughter treated if you just left it at that, just your son. So if you look at your employees as like your son or daughter and you just care about how they're treated, how they're nurture, how they're like brought up, Taylor is probably like here really that's that's not my day just getting.

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Speaker 3
Totally disagree.

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Speaker 2
Yeah.

00;26;23;28 - 00;26;28;01
Speaker 1
I've heard Taylor before. He said, Oh no, dad, I think you did a fine job.

00;26;28;10 - 00;26;31;14
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00;26;31;14 - 00;26;42;26
Speaker 1
So what do you think, Karen? Do you think we should introduce remind about level four and then next time we can, you know, dove into it a little bit deeper or.

00;26;43;03 - 00;27;22;19
Speaker 3
I love that idea. I love that idea for two reasons. One is that this level three, we've talked about, we've felt the heaviness of it, right? And now like, let's look at the the the lighter side of it. Okay? In that space of awareness, if we could see ourselves coping in rationalizing, justifying our actions just to take care of ourselves and saw that this could actually work better if I looked outside of my self enough and step on a level for bridge that is of service and compassion.

00;27;23;10 - 00;27;50;06
Speaker 3
And we will talk more about this in the upcoming episode. This is my teaser. This really is that that way to get to the win win too. They get to the higher levels of leadership, a higher level of energy. It takes awareness, it takes acceptance. It takes conscious choice to step on that level for bridge. But the level for bridge is the space of of compassion and curiosity.

00;27;50;06 - 00;28;11;00
Speaker 3
That's where we the more compassionate we can be with ourselves. We can be with our with our loved ones. We can be with our employees. We can be with the leaders. The more compassionate we can be with the situation that we're in, the more we can ask the questions, How did I get here? Why am I here? How is this serving me?

00;28;11;00 - 00;28;14;19
Speaker 3
Where do I want to see myself? What do I need to do for you?

00;28;15;04 - 00;28;15;11
Speaker 2
What?

00;28;15;23 - 00;28;33;13
Speaker 3
What does this organization need from me? All the inquiry that we can come from in that level for space, it is a it's amazing what can happen and can be created from compassion and curiosity. So I just leave it. Leave it with that.

00;28;34;21 - 00;28;35;02
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00;28;35;20 - 00;29;01;24
Speaker 1
Yeah, I just want to add one more thing to that. You know, the other thing I love about stepping into this love of four is that we really start to take very little personally. And that's that's a big deal because, again, we're human beings. And so, so often, you know, we're we're make it all about well, it must have been something that I did or, you know, what have you.

00;29;01;24 - 00;29;20;29
Speaker 1
So once we're in this, like, we take very little personally because we're thinking about the other person, right? And just just that service, that service mindset. You want to you want to talk real quick about the challenge of it, and then maybe we'll leave it. We'll leave it there.

00;29;22;08 - 00;29;51;12
Speaker 3
The challenge of level four. Yeah, yeah, sure. Some of the challenges here and you and you have some more information there as well. So piggyback off of this. But we can be of too much service. Sorry, too much of service we can be giving. We can we can take care of others before we take care of ourselves. This is the pleaser in us that's willing to make sure everyone else is taking care of.

00;29;51;12 - 00;29;59;12
Speaker 3
And we have forgotten to put our own oxygen mask on. What else? What are some of the other disadvantages here of the level for space?

00;30;00;01 - 00;30;20;10
Speaker 1
It's very much along the same lines, is what you're saying. But the way that I describe it is, is we can tend to get caught up in other people's drama, like I call it the swirl. Like when I'm coaching with clients, I'm like, how are you getting caught up in their swirl? And it's because we care so much, right?

00;30;20;10 - 00;30;28;01
Speaker 1
And we're trying to be of so much service and we're putting the value of us in taking care of or fixing other people.

00;30;28;15 - 00;30;29;03
Speaker 2
Yeah, we.

00;30;29;07 - 00;30;50;06
Speaker 1
Get caught up in their own drama. So again, it's the realization that that that can be a challenge in this level, but the realization that this isn't about fixing, it's about how can we be of service and help, but it's coming from an empowerment standpoint versus getting caught up, you know, in their in their world verse is also the motivation of us being liked.

00;30;50;22 - 00;31;09;19
Speaker 1
Right? Sometimes in this level is like I want to make sure people like me, so let me do as much as I can for, you know, for everybody. And then how quickly we can drop into those lower levels when it doesn't happen. Absolutely. I poured my heart out. I did so much for this person and I can't believe how they treated me or whatever.

00;31;09;19 - 00;31;21;00
Speaker 1
And then we can drop into those lower levels. So I know, I know for me that can definitely be. And when I'm in that service mode, because I just want to I just want to help people so bad. Right?

00;31;21;00 - 00;31;23;29
Speaker 2
So yeah, that's never that's never happened to me.

00;31;24;13 - 00;31;27;17
Speaker 1
Never. Scott, I wasn't thinking about you at all.

00;31;27;25 - 00;31;37;12
Speaker 2
I have I have the I had the disease to please. There's no question about it. So now hey, thanks for that explanation, too, because it really helps. Yeah, yeah, that really helps.

00;31;37;14 - 00;31;58;26
Speaker 3
Level four is the mindset here is you win and you could be any person, the circumstance or even yourself, if you are the one who needs the most compassion in that moment. And we forget ourselves often, so we don't give ourselves that self-compassion, but is a whole episode in and of itself, right?

00;31;58;26 - 00;32;18;03
Speaker 1
Wendy That is anything else that we need to wrap up besides, of course, you know, we'll go inside and have a call to action for everyone. But anything else we need to wrap up when we as we think about level three and level four, as of right now.

00;32;18;03 - 00;32;20;02
Speaker 2
No, I'm just listening. Yeah.

00;32;20;19 - 00;32;49;01
Speaker 1
Well, yeah. Scott, I really appreciate all that you bring in and your just your experi sense and your questions. So let's go inside and your call to action for this episode again, I think is think about level three and level four in the ways that we've described it so far. And when and how do you show up in that way?

00;32;50;01 - 00;33;07;26
Speaker 1
Right. How does that show up for you? You know, when when you think about how we described those levels. And I think after that, we will see you next time in culture, is it Inside Job.

00;33;09;15 - 00;33;15;02
Speaker 2
Episode six Yeah. See, as soon as we.