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Speaker 1
Welcome to Culture is an inside job. The Podcast on building an authentic, engaging and inspiring culture. Hi, I'm Wendy Roop and along with my friends and co-hosts Karen Preston and Scott McGowan, we believe that building a healthy work culture starts with leaders like you. If you're ready to get real and dig deep into your own self-awareness, determine how you want to show up in the world and then take aligned action to transform your leadership and those around you.

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Speaker 1
Then this podcast is for you. Now let's go inside. Welcome back, everyone, to Scott. Say it.

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Speaker 2
Culture is an inside job.

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Speaker 1
Yes, we have Scott, Karen. And I'm Wendy. And of course, we always have to mention Taylor in the background because he helps us so much. Last time we talked about energy leadership. And just very quickly, energy leadership came from Bruce Snyder, who is the founder of Ipac Institute for Professional Excellence and Coaching. And Karen and I both received our coaching certifications through that, through them.

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Speaker 1
And we also got our Energy Leadership Index Assessment certification. And so this body of work energy leadership comes from that. And we described it last time, but we thought that this time we would describe it quickly from a high level. What are those seven levels? And then start doing some more explaining about each of those levels starting at the bottom two levels.

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Speaker 1
Karen, sound good?

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Speaker 3
Yeah, absolutely. Making sure that we're bringing this back to in a way that is looking at how it's impacting us in culture. Right. Scott, the ability for us to see how we're showing up in our self culture and our culture and our family and our in our community and obviously in, in organizations. So. So let's just go through these again really.

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Speaker 2
Quickly.

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Speaker 3
And will will we'll take you from there. So we talked a little bit about catabolic and anabolic. Let's let's go a little bit deeper here. So catabolic is that breaking down of. It's an energy breaking down anabolic is constructing and so if we need to go further into that, we certainly can. But let me jump right into the levels and see what what you have.

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Speaker 1
Yeah. Karen, I just thought that I would I would jump in, as were describing, because it might be helpful and we can go deeper.

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Speaker 3
Absolutely.

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Speaker 1
That again. But, you know, the anabolic, as Karen was describing it, is it is think of building right in mind, body and spirit in everything that we do. So when we're in anabolic energy, it's actually I mean, even though, again, this is science, even our cells in our body are growing because of being in this level of energy.

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Speaker 1
Anabolic Catabolic, as Karen described, is tearing down. So just the opposite, right? It is the tearing down of mind, body and spirit in little. Literally on a cellular level as well. And because like energy attracts like energy, we when we are coming from an anabolic or a catabolic place, it is all we are also having that effect on other people.

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Speaker 1
So if we think ourselves as a catabolic leader, then what are we doing to those people who are not only to self, but what are we doing to those people who are supposed to be or supposedly because we have the title right following us. And so we'll talk more about that later, but hopefully that just gives a little bit more context.

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Speaker 1
Scott, does that help in in hearing how we're describing anabolic and catabolic?

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Speaker 2
Well, yes. And additionally to I think for those folks that are in charge of, you know, they're there there are people inside of an organization. We're living in an economy right now where if you're not self aware in regards to your energy, there's a lot of organizations that are talking about how hard it is to recruit so that we're trying to recruit a workforce.

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Speaker 2
And that's important and it's hard. But what's most important is what are you doing to recruit you existing workforce? Because people today, they have the luxury to make those choices every single day. There's 10 million jobs they can vote with their feet. We're not we're not in a society right now where we can demand or ask people to do.

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Speaker 2
We're not in a telling mentality with a workforce or an an asking mentality. And we're not. When an employer has an idea of the impact of energy leadership, not only for themselves, but also for their workforce, what they can create is an attractive, electric, energetic purse of purposeful in a place where people feel like they belong. And if so, if you think your old habits and styles and mindsets going to carry into the future.

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Speaker 2
I mean, I just hate to say it out loud, but you're sadly mistaken because organizations want you to stay that way because they're going to hire your people right out from underneath you. So.

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Speaker 1
Oh, great way to kick this off. Great way to kick this off. Thank you. And that ties.

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Speaker 3
Back staying in your current workforce. Wow. Yes. Novel idea these days.

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Speaker 1
Go ahead, Karen.

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Speaker 3
Oh, thanks, guys. This has been this has been great. I feeling a little bit more grounded. Okay. So let's start with level one. Level one, I lose. All right. This mindset is how I feel, helpless and hopeless. There's a lot of apathy, a lot of lethargy. It's like I can't get out of bed mentality. Right. Level two, more movement.

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Speaker 3
Level. Level two. Is that conflict? A lot of anger, a lot of resentment, blaming everyone else for the circumstance that we find ourselves in. Level three We move into more anabolic energy. Moving away from a loss to a win says I win. I don't.

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Speaker 2
Really give.

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Speaker 3
A rat's but about anyone else around me. I'm just going to do whatever it takes for me to get my win. A lot of coping and rationalizing. Level four The Bridge to the Higher levels service compassion you win. Specifically, you could be some some specific person. A specific situation that we find ourselves in or even back to us.

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Speaker 3
Who needs the most compassion right now? That's that level for when we're on that level for bridge and we're able to be compassion, inner and curious. This is what leads us to the level five. When when we start to see more opportunities, we start to take responsibility. This is where we thrive as leaders. Level six Subtle nuance is we always win.

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Speaker 3
This is where we see every experience as an opportunity to learn and grow, in essence, a gift. Level seven. Winning and losing are an illusion. We tap into our greatest genius and brilliance in the space we don't reside here because we would be too aloof. We need to be able to be grounded enough. So why wouldn't we want to reside in that level six space?

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Speaker 3
Being able to tap into the brilliance of level seven, but residing in level six, we get to see every experience truly as an opportunity to learn something and grow and see. It could be traumatic, it could be challenging. It could be just, just, just the most horrific experience. But I still have the ability as a conscious choice to look at that and think, this is a gift.

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Speaker 3
This is an opportunity for me to learn and grow something from this experience. Did I hit them all?

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Speaker 1
Did you say seven?

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Speaker 3
Seven is winning and losing are an illusion.

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Speaker 2
Mm.

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Speaker 3
We tap into that great brilliance. Don't reside there.

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Speaker 3
But the more we're able to tap into that, that's that sweet spot of flow. That's how we feel like we are. Just being right. That space you had asked me last session, Scott, last episode to identify a statement around level seven. And and that really is I am. That's enough. I am. There's no judgment. There's no there's no descriptor.

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Speaker 3
It's just I am.

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Speaker 1
And I think the feeling and again we won't stay on seven but just description, you know, and you use this word flow like the feeling is flow, right? Because I am it's just were in flow when we're in flow with where we're meant to be and doing what we're meant to do and we are who we are like it's just flow.

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Speaker 1
It truly is that absolute passion. And I mentioned this last time and I'll just say it again, because people hear that and they think, Oh, you're floating on a cloud somewhere, which is not true. Right. It's it is brain science. So when we are coming from these higher levels of energy, we are using our whole brain in order to connect with all of the levels of energy.

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Speaker 1
And that's really important. I think a really important distinction to make.

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Speaker 3
I want to express my whole brain.

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Speaker 2
It's just not when I'm no, it's just not like when I'm riding a unicorn around me now and then.

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Speaker 1
Definitely not.

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Speaker 2
That.

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Speaker 1
Or when you're wearing your in.

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Speaker 2
Mr. Campbell's out and. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

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Speaker 3
Yeah. I want to you talk about whole brain a couple of times and I want to expand on this just a little bit. We have a left and a right, and our left brain is very much process oriented. Our right brain is much more creative. And this is exactly that space of being creative, participatory and observing all at the same time.

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Speaker 3
In that space of utilizing our brain where we're able to observe ourself in a way that we see, Oh, this is me in whatever level. And in that space of observance, we get to choose what we want to create. That's that utilizing the right brain. We're processing the fact that we're in this moment and this is going to go away.

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Speaker 3
So I'm going to pull back. But observing self in that moment and now knowing we get to create whatever that looks like that's best for us as well as the rest of us around the environment, the eco ecosystem that we all reside in at that same given moment as well.

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Speaker 2
What's the best like Level seven experience? One of you like experience and what does that like for our listeners? Like, what would that feel like? Does that make sense? Yeah.

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Speaker 3
For me, it's really when I had when art was such a huge part of my life and I said that the colored pencils knew what to do. I just picked the color.

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Speaker 1
Oh, that is so beautiful. Karen, I love I know you've told me that story, but I just I love hearing it. That's flow.

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Speaker 2
That is cool. Mm.

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Speaker 1
The best way for me to describe it is, you know, my, my, my faith, my connection for me as God, you know, is so important to me. And, and when I, you know, whether it's in church or whether I'm in nature, I think feel like, you know, those two places. And I love music. So when I'm in church and I hear the music and or I'm in nature, I just feel like I am definitely in that absolute patch passion.

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Speaker 1
There is a connection that I, you know, it's almost indescribable, right? Kind of like what you say, caring about your art. Like it's hard to describe besides just what you said. And for me, it's just it's a it's a very deep connection that I just know everything is going to be okay and no judgment. And yeah, that's how I would describe it.

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Speaker 1
Scott, can.

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Speaker 2
You can you connect with.

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Speaker 1
Any time that you feel like you might connect into that level seven since worship?

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Speaker 2
You know, I think for me and like you too, Wendy, I mean, I think my, my, my faith's really important to me. And it wasn't growing up. I had no idea that God was a cop that gave me a speeding ticket every day. But today, I mean, honestly, like when I wake up and it's the first thing I think about and it's it's just the gratitude that, like, I'm breathing and things and things are going to be okay and like, I know, I know something's going to happen.

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Speaker 2
I know something's going to happen. But fortunately, today, I have the tools in the resources to be able to handle that someday. Some days it doesn't happen. Sometimes it does. And probably just the willingness to just be open. I had someone to ask me to say this prayer every day for a long time, and I did, but I had no idea what it meant.

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Speaker 2
And the prayer was God remove everything I know about myself, this world and you, and open my heart to a new experience today about myself, this world. And, you know, and at first I thought, that's a damasak I've ever heard of. Right? But he said, just keep just keep praying it. And it was I was amazed because what happened is arrogance leaked out, went away.

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Speaker 2
Right. The vulnerability came in. The humility came in and new experiences and new opportunities. Whether I participate in it or not, I got to see like who I used to be that way. I don't want to be that way. Yeah. Or that was really encouraging and there was just nuggets of opportunity to watch and see beautiful things happen, really crappy things happen.

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Speaker 2
And so that was a long answer to your question.

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Speaker 1
Again, back to self-awareness. Right. And I love what you said about gratitude.

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Speaker 2
Yeah, it's a huge piece of it.

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Speaker 1
Carry.

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Speaker 3
You emptied your cup, right? You came as the learner rather than the nowhere you gave yourself, as Wendy loves to say, the space and grace to be compassionate and curious in order to create the experience that could set you up for reaching that full potential within yourself.

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Speaker 2
Yeah, love it.

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Speaker 3
So do you want to talk about level two today?

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Speaker 1
I say we do it again.

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Speaker 2
Well, I think just a lot of people experience that all the time. And how do you how do you you guys are the experts, but how do you coach somebody into turn and somebody in level two to a different to a different level?

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Speaker 1
But before we do that, can I just reach back to level one again real quick because and I mentioned this off air.

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Speaker 2
But.

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Speaker 1
I think because, you know, many of the people we're talking to all different kinds of people, hopefully, who are listening to our podcast. But right now, you know, I think I'm just thinking about leaders and especially higher level leaders who get things done right. And so when I have shared this, the seven levels of energy with leaders, especially when we talk about these bottom two.

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Speaker 1
Right. I'm just going to say, for those who have never been a part of this work, it is it is really hard to see us in that space because we get things done. People count on us. I'm successful. I make X dollars. You know, I all these different things that we how we define success. But the question is, you know, the how behind it, how are you getting it done?

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Speaker 1
And so and even at the victim level and Karen, you know, if you have anything else to add to this piece but it's important for us to know that we are we are human beings. So we are made of energy. And at all times we have all of this energy, all these different seven levels of energy, you know, showing up for us in different even throughout one day.

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Speaker 1
And so sometimes it's hard for us to connect with these lower levels, especially probably level one. But remember, we may be showing up in in one particular area, showing up with a lot of level five or six energy. But if there's one thing, especially under stress, right, that's been going wrong or goes wrong in our eyes or what have you, we can have that victim mentality.

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Speaker 1
So it's really takes a lot to step back and really be real about how is this showing up in our lives? So I feel like our challenge for you and we would just invite you into sitting in that as we're describing these different levels, it's easy for us to say and don't do that, but but really like take the time to say, how does this really show up for you?

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Speaker 1
Because the more real you are right, the more opportunity you have to make shifts in your life. So I just wanted to say that.

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Speaker 3
You know, no apologies. And that's what's amazing. The what I heard you say is, again, we go back to acceptance, right? The more we can accept that this is how we feel, this is what we're thinking, we see we can take an action, we can react, right? We can take an action based on those thoughts and feelings. Or we can make a conscious choice to think, well, what might be a better way to serve me?

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Speaker 3
Even if it's just to sit in it and reflect and observe and understand why we're here? It will make sense when we when we reflect and think, why am I here? Why am I feeling so helpless? Why am I feeling so angry right now? So level one in that space of feeling very apathetic and lethargic right? Feeling like the world, the weight of the world is on your shoulders.

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Speaker 3
One of the things as a coach, when we see that it's really to acknowledge and validate because again, that's the number one thing, is that they want you want to feel heard, you want to feel seen. You want to know that you are worthy. Because right there, you're you're questioning your self-worth, right? Feeling helpless and hopeless. But you don't have to go to level two to start to get yourself out of that little hole or big hole.

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Speaker 3
You don't have to get angry. You don't have to blame anyone else. You don't have to be frustrated. You can go right into being able to say, What are my options? So in going to level two, sometimes it's important to go to level two. Sometimes we need to be upset with with the situation enough to get to that overcoming feeling like the weight of the world is on our shoulders, right?

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Speaker 1
Yeah. Karen, I hate to keep doing this going back to level one, but but one thing I think would be really important is also making sure that we're sharing the advantages and challenges of each work. So maybe just quickly, just for a second with and let me just share this. So the advantages people would be like, well, why would you ever want to be in level one, right?

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Speaker 1
You lose and the advantage advantages of that can be is that we can really protect ourselves from harm. Right? Because we're in that apathy and that lethargy and and we can receive attention when we're in this mode. And I mean, some let's be real. Sometimes we need attention. And, and so that can be an advantage of it. And we don't have to take any responsibility because we're not doing anything right.

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Speaker 1
We're just kind of covering our face and covering our head with covers is the way I envision it. You know, in some of the challenges, as I say, you know, there's that little or no engagement in anything. And and we lack the ability to lead or our self or others when we're in this mode. So I just wanted to jump in to share that before we jump into too.

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Speaker 1
So thank you.

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Speaker 3
Yeah, perfect. It's really important to see it from all different facets, right, so that we can relate and that help our audience relate because it's not like they've never been there, right. Scott I think we all know level one. So level two is really very different than level one. While it's just as much destruction and damage to our cellular level as when you describe that catabolic energy, it's it's a very different space than being stuck in laying in bed all day, feeling helpless or even in a situation where it's not like you're laying in bed, but you just see the situation at work and you're like, I don't have a solution, right?

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Speaker 3
I just there's nothing. I can't do anything. I, you know, I'm giving up on this right choice. Right level two is this very high level of energy inside. And we don't have to be angry at anyone else to feel that we could be angry at ourselves. We can be frustrated with us, with our with with me, with me.

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Speaker 3
I am frustrated at myself. I don't have to be frustrated with the rest of the world. I can blame myself for any. This is just as detrimental of a mindset than projecting out to the rest of the world how we feel right. And we do this often. We don't even realize it. So we so so self awareness is is missing with within us when especially as you mentioned when they when we're under stress, when we're in a situation that is challenging, these are at the default levels that we find ourselves in.

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Speaker 3
And it's really hard for us to see it and know what to do about it once we've realized that we're there. Right. Level two Lots of conflict, lots of frustration, lots of blame. What are some of the advantages and disadvantages of this?

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Speaker 1
The other word I wanted to say is, you know, the define it's like that action being defiance. Like that's another really good way to describe it. But some of the advantages that and I know, you know, most of us especially at this point in our lives, have probably worked for a level two leader or maybe even had a little level two parent or something like that.

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Speaker 1
But when we're in this level, we can get a lot done by ourselves, right? Because we are, you know, on a mission and we're able to motivate, but we're motivating by fear and by force. So that's the difference. However, we'll get things done for a while, right? The, the, the challenges of it is, of course, if we're thinking, I mean, not only for ourselves are we going to become dissatisfied because again, it's breaking ourselves down and mind, body and spirit.

00;24;06;15 - 00;24;35;29
Speaker 1
But those around us, again, whether it's family, whether it's work, are going to become dissatisfied after a period of time. If they're working around somebody who's in this level of energy and they can become very unproductive for multiple reasons. I can see Scott's brain turning right now. I'm thinking probably about and and and quit. And it goes back to what Scott was saying, too, about just where we're at, you know, in the world today and how much of this level two is happening.

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Speaker 1
We talked about level one, but also this level, too, how many people are quitting because they're coming from this anger perspective. And Karen, I like how you described that. It's not it's not just running around screaming at people all the time. Right. It could be an internal anger or it could be showing up as frustration externally or internally.

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Speaker 1
So, yeah. Scott, what comes up for you about this?

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Speaker 2
Yeah, my my wife would probably kill me if I said this, but I can't help myself, so just keep talking. But, you know, and Karen, you brought this up to us sometimes those traits protected us as kids and we learn those. And one time my wife and I were in an argument and I just said, hey, like, I'm not going to match your behavior right now.

00;25;21;26 - 00;25;31;20
Speaker 2
I understand that that protected you when you were when you were younger. And she said this. She goes, Hey, I don't need your leadership B.S. right now.

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Speaker 3
She didn't she didn't want it.

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Speaker 2
And I like I started to laugh and she goes, What's so funny? I'm like, Well, that's like that's like the most honest thing I've heard, like, all day. And what was amazing is how that how that sentence just changed everything. But it was it was the acknowledgment. So maybe I would even encourage even some listeners, like when someone's really angry, it's helpful that anger is against you, right?

00;26;05;09 - 00;26;30;28
Speaker 2
That's right. Dad used to say something all the time. He goes, Scott, everybody needs encouragement. And the people that deserve it the least need it the most. And it took me a long time to figure that out. But normally it's not it's either it's a trait that they got their way. So it's just it works or it's a mechanism that really protected them mostly when when they're, when they're, when they're growing up.

00;26;31;09 - 00;26;40;15
Speaker 2
And if you give just people just a chance, just a chance to have that cracked a little bit, some some really cool stuff going to happen.

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Speaker 1
Yes. And I feel like, you know, when we think about these two levels, it's the reality, again, to step into what's at the core of of just what you're saying, Scott, what's at the core of it? What's at the what the what's at the core of showing up, as you know, in the victim mentality? What's at the core of being in the fighter mode?

00;27;10;08 - 00;27;27;10
Speaker 1
And that's, you know, Scott, too. You were talking earlier about showing up as a coach and showing up, you know, as a leader, as a coach. And how do we help, you know, people to navigate some of these things and. Right. That's it's like when we people when we see people and we recognize that they're in these levels.

00;27;27;24 - 00;27;49;21
Speaker 1
What are some of the questions that we can ask them in order to really be curious and to be with them and to be present to help them to see that it can look different again. It's not about fixing, but but what might that look like? So yeah, so it's not always the most fun levels to talk about, but also, gosh, so insightful.

00;27;49;21 - 00;27;51;04
Speaker 2
So insightful. Yeah.

00;27;52;06 - 00;28;20;24
Speaker 3
I love what you were talking about here, Scott. I want to bring in the mirroring effect when we talk about this a lot right? The minute that you see someone in their frustration or their anger and we judge it, it's because we know it. It's because we feel it. It's because we have felt it. It's because the capacity for us to be frustration, to be angry, we see it, it triggers us.

00;28;21;17 - 00;28;51;04
Speaker 3
It's how we then show up again. Meeting energy, right? One of my favorite stories is in my marriage. That is now ex marriage for a very long time. I viewed my husband at the time as being selfish and this is my mantra, Well, you're selfish. And finally, one day I recognized what that actually meant and why this was really my ownership.

00;28;51;04 - 00;29;22;26
Speaker 3
Instead of projecting selfishness on him, it's really the truth was I wanted to spend more time with him. I wanted him to choose to spend more time with me. And the minute that I realized that this is just me and my selfishness, I stopped calling him selfish. That was huge. So the more we had that ability to be self aware of how we're showing up, how we're projecting, how we're seeing and judging others, like what is the dynamic here?

00;29;22;26 - 00;29;39;05
Speaker 3
What's the potential to start to see how we have a conscious choice to show up differently and take some of that responsibility? Again, responsibility doesn't have to be shaming and guilting ourselves. It's just the ability to respond. We could flip that word around, right?

00;29;40;01 - 00;30;10;05
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yes. So important that just stepping back and paying attention to what is it about us, right. Versus always about the other person, because it is it's that whole mirror effect. The other thing I wanted to bring up, Scott, you were you were also talking about, for example, as a kid. Right. Some people purposely go into the fire mode because they had to survive.

00;30;10;06 - 00;30;30;12
Speaker 1
Right. And not only as kids, but adults have to do this, too. But I think that is a great example of and it's important for us to bring this up, the reminder that these are not bad or good levels. And, you know, for each one of us probably have a story. Right. And and I'm not going to share the details of my story at this point.

00;30;30;12 - 00;31;03;09
Speaker 1
But I certainly can share my example, too, of for many years from a personal perspective, I lived in that level one. Right. I didn't think feel like I had a choice and as a victim of my circumstances and so forth. And then I could say, thank God I moved to level two and had more of that level two energy that I was able to get myself into a different place to realize then I had choices.

00;31;04;02 - 00;31;20;01
Speaker 1
And so I just share that because again, it's, it's easy for us to make these good or bad or why would want to be in them. But there are advantages and challenges of each one of them. And sometimes it is important for us to to know that and do that right.

00;31;20;02 - 00;31;52;01
Speaker 2
I think in this economy today, and I think Kogut actually has done some amazing things. If we choose to be open and curious about people. And if, for example, and both of you and Karen, thanks for being vulnerable. And Wendy, I think from an employer standpoint, there is a mindset that you keep your home life at home and your professional life comes in the building and we're going to build this artificial wall.

00;31;53;01 - 00;32;14;24
Speaker 2
Right. And we were going to be a professional organization. And what a sad existence, because today, at least what I've seen, those companies that have embraced it is employees. They pull in the parking lot and they walk in your door and they've got maybe, you know, a child that just flunked the sixth grade. They've got a mom that's in hospice.

00;32;15;00 - 00;32;43;01
Speaker 2
You know, they've got a marriage. It's fallen apart. They've got bankruptcy. They've got all of this stuff with them. And for a lot of employers, they really believe that they need to leave that stuff at home and it's just like no, like, like that stuff comes in the building. It doesn't go away. And when you can accept that as an employer like it's okay, it's okay that you're broken, it's okay.

00;32;43;01 - 00;33;12;15
Speaker 2
You're struggling. What? I mean, what? What a wonderful opportunity to show other people how much you care. And I think as most organizations culturally, what we learn inside of COVID is when you care about people before something catastrophic, like COVID 19, when you care about people before drama, they will care for they will care for you inside of it, through it and on the backside.

00;33;13;10 - 00;33;22;01
Speaker 2
But if you didn't care about them before and now you want to care because your business is falling apart, like good luck. Like what I love.

00;33;22;16 - 00;33;50;23
Speaker 1
Yeah, I love how you bring this culture piece in right? Because that is what this obviously that's what this is all about. But you do that beautifully and that's we want to help keep this top of mind for everyone, everything that we're talking about. How does it affect culture, whether it's from internal re again organization or family in that?

00;33;51;00 - 00;34;11;28
Speaker 1
Yeah, it was a beautiful example and oh my gosh, yeah, we could have a whole episode or two talking about just what we've been through in the last couple of years and and people resonating at that level one and two and who chose to then say no, there's an opportunity in this. Right. Karen, where do you think we should go next with this?

00;34;11;28 - 00;34;16;00
Speaker 1
I want to make sure we're honoring everyone's everyone's time and.

00;34;16;00 - 00;34;48;12
Speaker 3
Yeah, did you we went through the advantages and disadvantages of level two. Yes. Okay, great. I don't know where I was. I was still level one, actually, probably level three, just coping and rationalizing. So I think that we've touched on level one. We've touched on level two. I love that we've talked a little bit about culture. Why don't we stay here for a minute or so?

00;34;48;12 - 00;35;23;22
Speaker 3
What I liked about this, this idea here in terms of where we are from a COVID 19 perspective as we date ourselves, is organizations have a choice. And so much of this from, you know, historically post, what would it be Industrial Revolution era to now when organizations were created. There's a lot of the command and control old school mentality right?

00;35;23;22 - 00;35;49;26
Speaker 3
You're not disparaging those that are still stuck in but day and age, but they still are. And in that mindset, from top to bottom, they're focused on one thing and that's the outcome, focused on the number, focused on pushing everybody to get to that number. And this is where we're starting to see that that model is not sustainable.

00;35;49;26 - 00;36;25;12
Speaker 3
Right. Because people are acknowledging the fact that, hey, I'm tired of feeling helpless and helpless. I'm tired of feeling undervalued. I'm tired of being, you know, feeling you know, they they they started to feel helpless and hopeless. They're starting to now get into that level to frustration and resentment. And the choice is to resign, to find a different role, to go and push back to whatever they have to do now that they're honoring more than they're honoring the loyalty that they once had to this organization that doesn't loyal, you know, doesn't demonstrate loyalty to them the same way.

00;36;25;12 - 00;37;02;17
Speaker 3
And they can't for a number of reasons. And we can get into that. But our our times changed. We are now in the in the crossroads of how do we move forward, how do organizations move forward, how do they build back the culture that is sustainable based on the here and now, this experience that we're in, there's no better way than to look at what that outcome is, detach from it, drop it altogether, and focus on your, like you said before, the current workforce.

00;37;03;16 - 00;37;28;14
Speaker 3
Who do you have? What's their potential? What are the resources that they need? What level of energy are they showing up in? What would serve them better? How do we help them shift what's in their way? The more we can invest in our people and the human aspect of these organizations, we can help them reach their full potential.

00;37;28;14 - 00;37;46;00
Speaker 3
Well, and again, I have to say this with, you know, the caveat of full potential does not mean firing on all cylinders for potential could mean I can't get out a better get today and I need to be okay with that full potential. Could be. I'm really pissed off at you, Scott, and we need to sit down and have it.

00;37;46;00 - 00;38;08;08
Speaker 3
I have it out. But that's constructive because I'm willing to come. You're willing to hear, you're going to share and I'm going to listen and we're going to get through this together because we care. But if I'm an avoider and I'm just going to sit back and act like it's nothing or I'm going to stay in that victim mentality, I make no progress.

00;38;08;08 - 00;38;49;15
Speaker 3
I stay frustrated and then I leave. Yeah, right. Or you pressure me with aggressiveness or microaggression and you don't realize. And that creates even more disconnect. Not you specifically, but we see this everywhere. So instead of being able to come and get into as Brené Brown caused the rumble so that we have the dialog, so that we have the conversation well enough so that I can meet you where you are, so that I can share with you where I am, so that you can meet me, so that we can reach full potential together collectively to create the culture that is more sustainable and derive the outcome that we so choose and hope to, to to

00;38;49;16 - 00;38;52;00
Speaker 3
get to. That was once our goal.

00;38;52;14 - 00;39;01;11
Speaker 2
Right? Mm hmm. I'm in love. There's a company and maybe unfortunately or fortunately, I don't know. But Zappos guys remember Zappos.

00;39;01;24 - 00;39;02;14
Speaker 3
Yeah. Shoes.

00;39;02;23 - 00;39;29;00
Speaker 2
Yeah. And they sold. And then one of the things that I heard is somebody called to order a pizza to Zappos. So the employee there had like full permission and authority and and so that employee ordered a pizza for this person. And then it then she was caught off guard. She's like, oh, my gosh, I thought I called pizza because it's okay.

00;39;29;18 - 00;39;54;00
Speaker 2
Like, it's, it's on its way. And then they're like, how do I pay for it? Because don't worry about it. We like, we got it. And I mean, so now you can't tell me now, does Zappos help you to sell pizza? You sell shoes. But that person had this had the authority, their permission to create an experience for somebody else.

00;39;54;00 - 00;40;10;08
Speaker 2
And I guarantee you, they didn't have a manual like all the rules. Right? He or she was just allowed to act. And in this day and age, a culture is I mean, you're allowed to stand up in front of your workforce and say, you know what, I did a really bad job of culture and I want to change.

00;40;11;06 - 00;40;29;15
Speaker 2
And it's probably not going to be great tomorrow, but it'll be better than it is today. And I need your help. And you would probably have people say a couple of things. It's about time. A couple of people might say, Yeah, that's not true. But some people would say, I'm willing to help you with that. I'd love to talk about that.

00;40;29;15 - 00;40;58;15
Speaker 2
And what what what a beautiful thing to be able to do to give people a sense. I think one of the things that I'm reading now about what what most people want and inside of an organization is a sense of belonging. And as you mentioned, to care, Karen, is the organizations that are fighting for an outcome when you talk and adjust and tilt your culture more towards people, the outcome is higher and better than the old outcome.

00;40;58;18 - 00;41;20;21
Speaker 3
Yeah, because you're helping them reach for potential example belonging. You're focusing on the moment you're focusing on on what does that connection look like? What are our processes that are that are not functioning well? You're looking again, we can talk about this all day long, but it's more of the present mindedness of how are we showing up right here, right now?

00;41;21;16 - 00;41;22;16
Speaker 2
MM hmm. Right.

00;41;22;16 - 00;41;32;29
Speaker 3
You know, golf, you can't get up to the tee and say, oh, boy, I'm going to hit it long and straight. The minute that you start thinking long and straight, you're going to shank it.

00;41;33;19 - 00;41;41;08
Speaker 2
Right? What do you need to do? I don't know that it's yet. Turn has had its I don't know retailer hit on this but.

00;41;41;10 - 00;42;00;06
Speaker 3
You know what to do if you want to hit it how maybe let's let's talk about being in the sand pit for a minute. Right. And you got to you've got to get your the right club. Right. You need to understand the distance to the pin. You need to understand which side of the ball you're going to stand on.

00;42;00;06 - 00;42;21;10
Speaker 3
It's different than standing up, just hitting it off the tee. Right. You need your pitching wedge. Perhaps. Maybe you need something a little different, but you got to know in the moment what you need right then and there. If all you're focusing on is hitting the pin, you're never going to hit the pin. You got to think about how much more do you need to bend?

00;42;22;21 - 00;42;30;19
Speaker 3
What's the talk you need to give? Like all this is happening in the moment. Not thinking about the pin right?

00;42;30;19 - 00;42;31;19
Speaker 1
This putt putt count.

00;42;32;03 - 00;42;38;07
Speaker 3
Putt putt does count because that's even more important because every one of them, you're thinking a hole in one hole in one hole crying.

00;42;38;11 - 00;42;38;19
Speaker 2
Right.

00;42;38;23 - 00;42;42;25
Speaker 3
But sometimes you got to be like, I need to bank this. And it might be a part to.

00;42;44;06 - 00;42;46;16
Speaker 2
I like the par five oh.

00;42;47;00 - 00;43;17;01
Speaker 1
Now this, this is great. And I think, you know, as we wrap up today, you know, Karen, I think you said it. You know, I think we invite everyone to just continue as we're talking about these different seven levels of energy. How are you showing up? Right. What's the reality of that? Because when we again have that level of self-awareness and we're really real about how we're showing up and reacting, then again, that's when we have an opportunity to help other people.

00;43;17;14 - 00;43;41;13
Speaker 1
And so, you know, perhaps our next episode will continue to talk about the higher levels of energy and again, advantages and challenges of them. And then I see in our future talking about, well, what can hold us back from being able to move into those higher levels of energy. So we've got some things up our sleeves for that well.

00;43;42;07 - 00;43;43;08
Speaker 2
So stuff.

00;43;43;19 - 00;43;46;03
Speaker 1
Scott Anything else that you have to add or.

00;43;46;04 - 00;44;08;22
Speaker 2
Karen You know, I think the one thing too is you brought up the assessment if somebody wanted to do an assessment, right? So they think they're operating in level two, but really there are five or they think there are five. They're really a two. And so if somebody was interested in that, like what would they do next?

00;44;08;22 - 00;44;39;13
Speaker 1
Reach out to Karen and or myself and we'll make sure that you have our contact information and we can work with you on, you know, how that works. How do you how do you get us an assessment and then debriefing that? Because Karen and I are both very passionate about this work and it's really important that people don't just take the assessment and then say, okay, this is who I am.

00;44;39;14 - 00;44;50;12
Speaker 1
Like, it's important to talk about it, to coach around it, to debrief around it. So so yeah, we'll share our information. So, so we can help you with that if you're interested in in it.

00;44;50;26 - 00;44;52;05
Speaker 2
And the same thing with the book.

00;44;53;19 - 00;45;09;18
Speaker 1
The book is available on Amazon. So if you go to Amazon, you can get energy leadership by Bruce Snyder. And it's a great book because it it's in story format. So it's easy to to read and, you know, understand some of those levels.

00;45;09;18 - 00;45;12;15
Speaker 2
It's does it have pictures for people like me have get it.

00;45;13;14 - 00;45;30;04
Speaker 1
Maybe graphs and them figures so yeah. So I would yeah. Check that out. And again if you're interested in the assessment, we can we can share more information on that too. Karen, anything else you have to add?

00;45;30;28 - 00;45;40;25
Speaker 3
No, I think this is exciting. I am excited for our listeners too to build some self-awareness, understand what acceptance might look like, and see where conscious choice might lead them.

00;45;42;00 - 00;45;42;21
Speaker 2
Absolutely.

00;45;42;29 - 00;45;46;11
Speaker 3
Wendy, what do you do when we go inside? What how how does that work?

00;45;46;11 - 00;45;48;15
Speaker 1
Let's let's go inside. Right.

00;45;48;22 - 00;45;50;17
Speaker 3
So let's go inside.

00;45;50;17 - 00;45;52;04
Speaker 2
Yep. Just how are.

00;45;52;04 - 00;45;53;20
Speaker 3
You building your self awareness?

00;45;53;20 - 00;46;20;16
Speaker 2
Yeah. You know, and maybe what we can do is maybe encourage our listeners as we kind of step away as just think of the people in your life that you bounce into that bring energy to you and think about what, what traits and attributes and what emotion do they bring to you. And do you match those with with with other people?

00;46;20;16 - 00;46;39;26
Speaker 2
You know, one of the the and I know we've got to wrap up, but I can't stop talking. Henry Kissinger was actually voted as in Washington, D.C., as one of the sexiest men, Washington, D.C., you know why? Why? Because he listened. Hmm. So you'd have dinner with him and you would sit down and he would say, Hey, your daughter's going to Boston College.

00;46;39;26 - 00;47;00;20
Speaker 2
And she do. People would be like, Wow. And he would talk about their, you know, their their spouse and their kids and their vacations and and what was really interesting is a lot of people said, I don't know anything about him. Right. Because he was so interested in other people and people would leave the room and say, what?

00;47;00;21 - 00;47;23;11
Speaker 2
Like what a really interesting person. He was an interesting because he didn't share anything about himself. What he did is he was just really about other people. You took this big epic personality, you know, that was across the globe in the world. And he just kind of stepped away from that and just asked really compelling questions about humanity.

00;47;23;11 - 00;47;24;29
Speaker 2
And I just think that's really cool.

00;47;26;01 - 00;47;30;22
Speaker 1
Yeah, curiosity is a very important part of culture, too, right? That's what creates.

00;47;30;22 - 00;47;34;06
Speaker 2
So. Join us next time. Have a great day.

00;47;34;19 - 00;47;35;00
Speaker 1
See you.

00;47;35;13 - 00;47;35;27
Speaker 3
Soon.