The Seven Levels of Leadership - Part 1 | EP3 |

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Speaker 1
Welcome to Culture is an inside job. The Podcast on building an authentic, engaging and Inspiring Culture. Hi, I'm Wendy Roop and along with my friends and co-hosts Karen Preston and Scott McGowan, we believe that building a healthy work culture starts with leaders like you. If you're ready to get real and dig deep into your own self-awareness, determine how you want to show up in the world and then take aligned action to transform your leadership and those around you.

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Speaker 1
Then this podcast is for you. Now let's go inside. Welcome to Scott. Go ahead. Say the name.

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Speaker 2
Culture is an inside job.

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Speaker 1
Yes, we are in episode number three. How exciting is that?

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Speaker 3
Who?

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Speaker 1
Yes, we've got Scott. We've got Karen. We've got Wendy and we have our vaccines expert, Taylor. So thank you, Taylor, because you keep us all together.

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Speaker 2
He does. He does a good job at that, doesn't he? Yep.

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Speaker 1
Very much so. Very sort of.

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Speaker 2
He's our fountain of knowledge, right? Yes. Overall.

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Speaker 1
I can actually see his face today. I think last time he had his face off. And I like I like to be able to actually you know what? He doesn't have his face on. He's tricking us. Yeah. Has it on frozen smile.

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Speaker 2
Oh, yes. Okay. Just. Just for a glimpse. Just for.

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Speaker 3
Us.

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Speaker 1
So, Scott, you want to do you want to kind of jump us into this today as far as what we talked about last time so we can get this party started?

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Speaker 2
Yeah. You know, I think, you know, one of the things that's really important to the three of us is the impact on culture and not only just organizationally organizational culture, but the culture and how we carry our selves every day, whether it be in our families or our workplace or, you know, whether we're in line at Chick-Fil-A. Right.

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Speaker 2
It's it's the way that we carry ourselves. And one of the things that I'm really excited about today is this asset of energy leadership. And it's it's an asset that both you and Karen deeply care about, are deeply knowledgeable about. And so on this podcast episode three Bus, I am in the back seat as, as a listener called to just be really curious.

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Speaker 2
And you know, Wendy, I've watched you use this a number of times with people, and it's it's enormously authentic. And it can be and it can be really powerful. So I'm just grateful to be sitting next to the two of you, and I am going to listen and learn. So take it away.

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Speaker 1
Thank you, Scott. Yeah. In before. I want to jump over to Karen here, too. But before I do that, you know, Scott, the one thing you bring many things, but for this episode, what you also bring to the table are the stories that you have. Right. Like you being the CEO of a company and caring so much about culture and you do have an understanding of energy leadership.

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Speaker 1
But the stories as we're talking about this, so we're excited to, you know, for you to pepper those in with us and why this is so important. You know, Karen and I, in doing this work, we received our coaching certification through Ipac Institute for Professional Excellence in Coaching and Energy. Leadership is a piece of what it's the core of it, but there's an energy leadership assessment.

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Speaker 1
So we were able to get certified in that as well. And as we talk about culture, and I think we mentioned this last time in podcast, one or two in order for us to really have the effect that we want in culture and to have that alignment, we have to have a very deep level of self-awareness. And for Karen and I, that's the beauty of this work.

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Speaker 1
The energy leadership work really helps us to have a level of self-awareness about how we're showing up in the world. So at that, I'm going to kick it over to Karen so she can set us up a little bit more about what energy leadership is all about and why it's important. And then we'll jump into explanation.

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Speaker 3
Cool. Thanks, Wendy. So energy leadership. Yeah, it's it's pretty fascinating. And I think the most the most relevant piece to it really is the fact that it's a tangible language for us to use together. It's a tangible language for us to introspect within ourselves. It's a tangible way to look at a dysfunctional culture. So let's just let's just jump right in.

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Speaker 3
How house? How's that sound?

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Speaker 1
Sounds great.

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Speaker 3
So we talk about I don't like to use positive and negative around these, you know, this this language and energy leadership because it's very judgy. We use terms like catabolic and anabolic, whereas when we find ourselves in certain situations where we're feeling stuck or we're feeling limited in our focus, where we're feeling helpless, those are more referred to as like damaging and destructive kinds of mindsets.

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Speaker 3
And we'll talk a little bit more about this. The other way to shift into a higher level of of thinking is more anabolic, where it's more constructive and creative. So energy leadership has seven levels, and the lower levels are obviously are more of that catabolic energy, whereas those higher levels are more anabolic, which is the constructive and creative we find ourselves moving through these throughout the day.

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Speaker 3
There, there's, there's no good or bad. It just is right. And so one of the most important aspects and we check ourselves on this regularly is not to criticize when we are in any of the lower, more catabolic energies, it's the acceptance of it that's really, truly the gift. And we'll talk about that. So let's jump right into level one, right?

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Speaker 3
The mindset in level one is I lose. This is where I feel very helpless. I feel hopeless. There's a lot of apathy and lethargy in this level. Level two is a little bit more movement, but it's you lose. There's a lot of conflict here, a lot of resentment, a lot of blame, a lot of anger, frustration. And so you can see both of these areas that we may have in mind as a mindset, experiences that we have where it puts us in feeling helpless or hopeless or angry and frustrated.

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Speaker 3
These are some damaging and destructive mindsets, right? Level three We start to move to a little bit more anabolic energy. We move away from a loss to a win. It's an AI win mentality, right? But I'm not really caring about anyone else. I'm just going to do whatever it takes for me to get my win. There's a lot of coping and a lot of rationalizing in level three.

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Speaker 3
A lot of this is just keeping ourselves out of one and two because we see they don't serve us. So that's where the rationalizing and coping comes in. However, we stay stuck in this space oftentimes and never get to any of the higher levels and stay in a good enough mindset as well. So this is kind of like the hamster wheel.

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Speaker 3
So I talk about level four as a bridge to the higher levels and this is you win and the you here is a specific other person, a specific situation that we find ourselves in or specifically back to us that we are going to be of service and give compassion to. It's a little different than the nuance of the level three.

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Speaker 3
I'm just going to go do whatever it takes for me to get my win and for me to actually show the compassion to myself that I need right now. Very different. So on this level, for a bridge to the higher levels we find ourselves walking across in this service and compassion being very curious, which begins to open up our minds to where level five is the win win.

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Speaker 3
This is where we start to take more responsibility without feeling the shame and guilt of what that looks like. We see more opportunities. We see options. Now our view is much more expansive, right? You can feel it, right? You can feel that level of being able to see, wow, this is a potential now level six. There's a subtle nuance in the language, but a vast reality of difference here.

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Speaker 3
It's we always win. So little level six, we always win is the experience of every every experience being able to see it as a gift, being able to see it as Where am I learning and growing? Even when I'm stuck in a level two frustration. I get to sit there long enough to to garner what is the gift of this feeling?

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Speaker 3
Frustrated that, again, you see yourself now being compassionate, asking yourself the questions, how how did I get here? Why am I here? What's the benefit of being here? What am I supposed to learn from this? Right. And then it takes us to level seven, where winning and losing are an illusion. And this is the space where we tap into our greatest genius, where a participant or an observer and a creator all at the same time.

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Speaker 3
And so in this space that we don't reside in, we tap into this greatest brilliance and visionary thinking in this mindset. And that's what allows us to be able to access any of the other levels at any given time and use that to our advantage in that moment. So I'm going to take a breath here. Wendy, what's coming up for you as I share these levels?

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Speaker 1
Yeah, thank you. I think, first of all, I just want to add for level seven because, you know, obviously, that's the level that most people are like, okay. Right. Like, who is ever there? And and, you know, the one thing that I will say right now, I think we'll of course, we're going to talk about each of these levels a little bit.

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Speaker 1
But in level seven, it is we when we are using our whole brain. Right. Because people want to make this about, are you floating on a cloud? Are you right? But I like to make it about brain science because people can connect with that. This is the reality of that. When we are at the higher level of energy, we're using our whole brain, which is what helps us to be able to connect to the other levels, which is what you were talking about, right, Karen?

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Speaker 2
Mm hmm.

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Speaker 1
And then the other thing, I just thought that I would bring up, you know, Karen, maybe it's important for us to talk about some of the misconceptions and things of when we talk about energy leadership, maybe some assumptions people make. And one of many of the things that one of the things that I hear on a regular basis are that people feel like, well, they'll say, oh, well, when I'm in the lower levels, I'm always really sad, right?

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Speaker 1
And I'm in the upper levels. I'm always happy and nothing's ever wrong and so forth. When that's again, it's not about good or bad or right or wrong or necessarily happy or sad. It's it's about being able to understand where we're at when we're each one of those levels. And they in they just show up a little bit different.

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Speaker 1
And so I think that's important to make sure that we're explaining to people that just because you're coming from those higher levels of energy doesn't mean that you ever you don't have a bad day, right? Doesn't mean that, you know, when somebody you lose somebody that you're you know, you're not sad or you don't ever get angry. I just want to call that out because I think working with leaders especially, I think sometimes kind of misunderstand what the levels of energy mean.

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Speaker 3
Mm hmm. Thanks for bringing that in. And so to give again some tangible language for us, three pieces is awareness. Right. And that's and that's where this is really great. It's it's building that self-awareness and that ability to now see what is going on around you. Right. How am I showing up energetically? What what? Where am I? What energy level, man right now?

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Speaker 3
What energy level is he? And right now, how can I meet him where he is? We'll talk a lot about that. But the second piece to this is acceptance. And that's and that's what you were saying in the ability of just saying, okay, if I'm sad right now, how can I accept that I'm sad instead of being like, I don't want to be sad.

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Speaker 3
Sad is bad, right? And the third piece here is conscious choice. The more aware we can be, the more we can accept what is and what isn't right. For those of us who are control freaks, we get to let go of the things we can't control and take hold of what we know we can. Right, Scott?

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Speaker 2
Yes.

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Speaker 3
And then be able to choose how we want to move forward. Right. Consciously.

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Speaker 1
And this is where I want to just make this connection back to culture, right? When we understand that we first of all realize how we're showing up, realize how we're truly reacting to our circumstances, and then realize we get to make a choice in what that looks like. That's when we can really have the impact that we want on our own internal culture, our culture of our family, our organization, our community, our world, etc..

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Speaker 3
Scott, I wasn't calling you out as a control freak.

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Speaker 2
No, but I think it's important. I mean, I think, you know, things as I explore here, you know, like there's just a lot of people that, you know, quite frankly, they think that things are going really well because they're getting their way. But the way they're getting away is destructive to an organization. And, you know, they're even though they might be successful in thinking they're getting your way, they're manipulative, right?

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Speaker 2
They are control freaks. They're not growing people behind them, above them. And but, you know, at the end of the day, and I have a deep respect for just humanity, even at its worst, it's everybody just trying to do their very best. And sometimes their best sucks, but without self-awareness, will probably use the tools that get us what we want.

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Speaker 2
But when we have the other tools, which both of you are so just deeply ingrained and have the competence to be able to talk about this, you know, an example of that was like level three. I think sometimes as a leader, I've always been maybe naturally speak last in a room, right? Observe, reflect, discuss. But you know, sometimes because I like to speak last, sometimes I need just I need to sit in level three and just say, hey, folks, this is this is what we're going to do, because I just wasted 20 minutes of time.

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Speaker 2
And I knew what we were going to do. But out of being humble, which wasn't which isn't humble, it's artificial harmony. Does that make sense? Because I know where we're going to go. So with having having a recognition of level three when things just have to get done, this is what's going to happen. This is my role, this is my title, this is my authority and this is what we're going to do.

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Speaker 2
I thought that used to like bother people. Now it actually they're like, great, let's just do that next. Now all we talk about and that was really interesting to me watching that kind of manifest itself into something that I thought was going to be unhealthy and it's something that was unbelievably healthy. Just tell us if you are ready now, just tell us we're good.

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Speaker 1
Yeah. I was just going to ask you. You're experiencing it. You're experiencing experience with that, right? Like when you went from that realization of, okay, I need to make sure there's harmony, you know, for all for all the reasons that we do that to. Now, let me step into. Right, what is the truth of this situation, John? And let me share that upfront versus setting back.

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Speaker 1
So it sounds like you had a really good experience with that and people really did appreciate it.

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Speaker 2
Yeah, it was. But it was uncomfortable because, you know, like a lot of people, when we get our way, every problem is that looks like a nail. And every solution is a hammer. And you know what I've learned as you've got this great toolbox, you got some wire cutters, a wrench, screwdriver. They're just they're different. But without the lack of self-awareness, everything's going to look like a nail.

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Speaker 2
And most of the time, the solution is going to be a hammer and it's going to be very ineffective.

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Speaker 3
So I I'm having a visual here because I'm pretty visual. I'm seeing like the tools in your box represent each of the employees in a way that the more you can collectively see and utilize their strengths, this is how you build cohesion, right? This is where you're actually willing to sit down and get off the level three hamster wheel step on the level four bridge to understand the compassion and service to everyone else, as well as to yourself and to the situation, to the organization.

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Speaker 3
They ask the questions, What are your strengths? Ask the questions. What do you like to stay away from? What would you prefer to stay away from in your role and responsibility? How do we utilize and leverage your strengths so that we're all creating the level five win win and even better than that, we're always winning in level six because we see every opportunity as this experience to say, Wow, that tool wasn't the best tool this time, and I feel bad that we had to use that tool this time.

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Speaker 3
But what is it? Where is the opportunity for us to have this conversation? The dialog to learn and see which tool would have been better here? So Scott, I guess I come back from a coach perspective and just I'm curious, how can you see visually yourself creating the toolbox in a collective fashion with every all of the people around you as well as your own tools utilizing them collectively to get to that level six face of what, what, where every experience is a gift and we're always winning.

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Speaker 2
You know, I never liked using that level three authority. It just it's not natural for me. But I do know that sometimes it's effective and it's useful. But what I've learned most often is when I choose to speak last, because most leaders, I mean, are very competent and they probably have a very good gut reaction in regards to what happens happens next.

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Speaker 2
But with an executive team, you need to work together. But what's interesting is when you have an idea and a mindset. So if I was going to be level three, so this is how I carry myself in a meeting. I know what I want, but I'm not going to say it. I'm going to choose not to say it.

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Speaker 2
I'm going to talk about it, and I'm going to watch the collective energy of the group for a couple of reasons. Number one, as they might be navigating towards what I think my desired status, the solution, more importantly, they could alter and tilt my opinion in a different direction. And the freedom of that is amazing.

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Speaker 3
I think you're sitting back with the beautiful level four posture. What do we do say here, Wendy?

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Speaker 1
Oh, absolutely. It's it's definitely a level four posture of, you know, that service because you are open minded and want to be open minded to what does the group and what do others need at the same time, stepping into that level five, which is that, you know, we both win and really we call it out as the explore, which again, we'll talk more about this later, but really where, you know, you start to really explore all the different options.

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Speaker 1
So, yeah, I agree with you.

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Speaker 3
Mm hmm. So I think that you think maybe there's a level three here, but I think it looks more like level five and six.

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Speaker 2
Well, I think I think that approach definitely is is certainly much better than the novel three. You know, I had a coach one time tell me his brother was a general in the Army, and I don't know if you remember Peacock.

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Speaker 1
Of course I did. Yeah.

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Speaker 2
He told me a story about his brother. So he walks in and there's a big group of people, I don't know, like 30 people around. And he walks in the room and he tears the stripes off. You know, they're velcroed on shoulders. The stripes on a on a on a uniform. So he he tears office for his four stripes and he puts them on the table and he said, We're going to have a conversation.

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Speaker 2
We're going to talk about this. At the end of the day, I'm going to put these stripes back on my shoulder and it's my call. But I want to talk about this without this thought, which I thought, you know, and obviously I didn't grow up in the military. I probably wouldn't survived without it. I have a lot of respect for people that that that are that understand that structure and balance and that's that that authority.

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Speaker 2
But just the freeness and being open in that environment and surrendering all authority table, you know, labels and titles is just a really cool thing to watch.

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Speaker 1
He was making a choice, right, Scott? Which is exactly what we're talking about. And he went into that understanding that he had a choice in how he wanted to show up. And so that's what he was stepping into. The other thing I wanted to bring up, I wrote this down as as you were talking, is the realization that no matter where we're at and how we're showing up in situations and reacting to things, we get to ask the question.

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Speaker 1
Again, this goes back to what Karen said about it not being bad or good or right or wrong. How is this serving me? So for you, Scott, when you talk about let's just keep using level three as an example. When you go into a meeting as an example and you know that you've taken that approach before and that level three of saying, Well, this is what's going to happen, I hope you come along right.

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Speaker 1
But but ultimately, this is what's going to happen. How is that serving you? Right. And how is it serving the other people? So if it's if it is having the effect with the outcome that you hope for, then great. If that isn't in coming from that level, then you get to choose how else you're going to show up.

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Speaker 1
Just like the example of the more higher level four or five. As far as coming from the place of No, I want to hear what everybody else has to say and then we'll make a collective decision so we can always ask ourselves that question How is this serving me?

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Speaker 2
Yeah, now that's really cool.

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Speaker 3
So Wendy, would you like to go ahead?

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Speaker 2
Scott No, I was just like an example of walk me through as a novice, right? So I'm like learning with everybody else. Walk me through a level one statement, like what it would set this sentence that would sound like level one and a sentence that would sound like level seven. Does that that makes sense?

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Speaker 3
You want to you want to do one of the.

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Speaker 1
Well, I mean, one or.

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Speaker 3
The other doesn't doesn't matter.

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Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, I'll I'll do one.

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Speaker 3
Okay.

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Speaker 1
So, and Karen, add to this because I want to make sure that I'm right on. But I mean, I would say a level one would be this always happens to me. Nothing ever goes my way. I always you know, I yeah. Just just that that victim mentality where you don't feel like having a choice. I don't have a choice in the matter anyway.

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Speaker 1
So why even try this? Always. This always happens. I say I give up, I.

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Speaker 3
I give up. Yeah. It's not worth it.

00;25;34;25 - 00;25;39;01
Speaker 1
Mm. Yeah. So really where you're just stuck.

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Speaker 3
Feeling that sense of hopeless really and helpless where you, it's hard to see options when you're in this, in this mindset and, um, and so I would like, I like the, he's wanting to go to level seven but, but let's say here in level one a little, a little bit. Let's, let's embrace and embody a little bit of level one.

00;26;01;29 - 00;26;26;25
Speaker 3
Would you would you be okay with that, Wendy? Yeah. Would you be okay with that? And you use the, the term victim and and this is hard this is hard to hear, right? Nobody wants to feel like a victim. Nobody wants to be called a victim. Nobody wants to refer to their mindset as being in a victim mindset.

00;26;26;25 - 00;26;55;19
Speaker 3
And yet again, it's about awareness. It's about a reference to it's not good or bad. It just is. It's just this is how I'm feeling. There's a there's a thought, there's a feeling, and it's an action or inaction based on those thoughts and feelings, right? Mm hmm. So think about when we're feeling helpless and we're feeling hopeless and we feel like it's not worth it.

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Speaker 3
Like what's going on here in let's look at as as an individual what's going on in a family, what's going on in our community, what's going on in an organization when we're feeling helpless and helpless like this.

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Speaker 1
Up meaning are you asking about.

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Speaker 3
Question? Yeah, I mean, it may be just creating a space for any for anything to pop up here.

00;27;23;14 - 00;27;44;22
Speaker 1
Oh, okay. Yeah. What? When you think about what Karen's saying, I'm curious from your perspective, you know, the way that we described it, what do you feel like is happening within an organization or within a family? You know, when when you're hearing that from someone or multiple someones, that kind of language.

00;27;45;27 - 00;28;19;03
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, I think everybody. Yeah, no one naturally I the only reason why I know this is because I was the mayor of victimhood for a long time. It was a very familiar place for me and it was comfortable, which is really bad. And then I was also really drunk on chaos, like chaos was just normal. When things got peaceful, I was like, Whoa, I don't want to do that anymore because it get where they get way too normal like chaos was drug you know, pace was my drug of choice.

00;28;19;21 - 00;28;42;21
Speaker 2
And so today, one of the things that that I love to do and when we're at least in a leadership session, is this whole red dot exercise, you know, like you're at a mall or you're at a park and it says you are here. So it's with your group, like, where are you right now? And so, you know, we're dealing with a lot of people right now that are my age, whose parents are are they're really sick and they're taking care of them.

00;28;42;21 - 00;29;07;11
Speaker 2
So we can be in a really big strategic meeting. But but so and so is worried about, you know, their mom that's in hospice. Well, then she's not going to bring the energy to the meeting that you expect. But the beauty in that is like when you know that and you can have empathy for that situation and you can maybe even distract her from that and bring her back into a different spot.

00;29;08;03 - 00;29;36;18
Speaker 2
Right. But if you don't know that, you might overreact. And what a harmful thing to do to somebody and you mean to you just don't you just don't know. And what I really appreciate about the two of you is you have an uncanny ability to ask really powerful questions for people to get them in this spot where they're willing to at least maybe examine why they're behaving that way and why they're showing up in that way.

00;29;36;18 - 00;29;39;15
Speaker 1
Yeah. And using this tool as one of the ways that we do that.

00;29;40;05 - 00;30;07;05
Speaker 3
Again, tangible language, right? We couldn't put a context around it without this kind of framework. Right? You just know you're feeling this way. So basically, Scott, what you just what you just demonstrated was meeting her where she is. And if you were to empower her in a way, you could shift her energy to at least that space of level three, where she starts to feel a little bit more coping and rationalizing.

00;30;07;06 - 00;30;38;28
Speaker 3
Right where we may not need to get her all the way to seeing this as a gift, because for her and her mom, you know, in hospice, that feels very traumatic at that. But where she is and this again goes back to that self-awareness. So the more self-awareness we have, right, that that pulls us back to being able to know how we can show up for her.

00;30;38;28 - 00;31;09;09
Speaker 1
Yeah, just I love I love the explanation of this and I think the biggest thing is, again, some people are more self-aware than others. And so the beauty of this work is, is helping people. And I think what I want to hone in on is when you said to Scott helping her to shift from the lower levels into like a level three.

00;31;09;19 - 00;31;33;25
Speaker 1
And I love the way you said that, Karen, because that's an important the important distinction between forcing somebody or fixing somebody or thinking that we have to get them from here to here. We can't do that part. We can invite them to see it, by the way, that we meet them where they are, because like energy attracts like energy.

00;31;34;07 - 00;32;06;03
Speaker 1
And so, Scott, when you're showing up in that higher level of energy, you have more opportunity to attract other people to that energy because they feel it, they see it. They probably will eventually get to the point they want more of it. When you come from those lower levels of energy, like when you lived, as you called out, you know, in victimhood or what have you, again, you were attracting, I bet if I took you back to that time and I ask you, what were you and who were you attracting back then?

00;32;06;06 - 00;32;08;25
Speaker 1
It would look very different than today.

00;32;08;25 - 00;32;29;25
Speaker 2
Oh, no. You know, it's funny, as I was thinking about this and, you know, with kids, do you ever have your kids, like lose it in a grocery store? Right. You're so embarrassed. But have you ever acted out in front of them? Like in public, like they're screaming, they want something. And if you ever matched, like you match it.

00;32;30;11 - 00;32;40;15
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. They're they're absolutely horrified, too. Like, why would you behave like that? It's because you're behaving like that. Have you ever have you ever experience that? Oh, yeah.

00;32;40;26 - 00;32;44;20
Speaker 1
Yeah, lots of times. Lots of times. More than I'd like to admit. Yeah.

00;32;45;06 - 00;32;47;06
Speaker 3
Yeah. Not consciously, right?

00;32;47;06 - 00;32;57;09
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. You go from, like, masking it. Like, I want to make sure I'm perceived as a good parent to just exactly identifying and matching their behavior. That's just it.

00;32;57;11 - 00;33;00;04
Speaker 3
Until you find out that you were actually being videoed, the whole.

00;33;01;17 - 00;33;06;18
Speaker 2
Yeah. And you're on and you're on YouTube. Yeah, yeah. Good, good. Yeah.

00;33;07;02 - 00;33;31;27
Speaker 1
Karen, you know, there's gosh, there's so much we can dove into with this work. And, and while we may be a little bit all over the place in order to help give the foundation for this will definitely as I think Scott uses this term land the plane you know eventually in the next couple of podcasts to give people an even an even better understanding about this work.

00;33;32;26 - 00;33;48;27
Speaker 1
But how do you feel like we should, you know, wrap up our time together today as we think about, you know, these seven levels of energy and when we think about leadership and culture, you know, just just from a high level right now.

00;33;49;03 - 00;34;17;29
Speaker 3
Yeah. Thank you. I absolutely think there's so much in this world right now where we are sitting in a level one hole. And it is really hard for us to see our way out of it. There is there is there is. Everywhere you turn, we we're judging it as good and bad. Where we're everywhere we turn, we're seeing, you know, victimhood everywhere.

00;34;18;00 - 00;34;49;14
Speaker 3
Right? We feel our own level of somewhat despair. We feel sometimes we're stuck. I think that in order to really resonate, it's all about going back to the three things awareness. You can't know what you don't know. You can't do anything about it if you didn't know it. So once you build the awareness of the fact that, okay, if I'm in this level one hole right now, how can I accept that that's where I am?

00;34;50;18 - 00;35;16;25
Speaker 3
And what questions do I need to ask of myself about why am I here? How long do I want to stay? How is it serving me? And if I wanted out, if and when I wanted out, what would I need to do? And you don't have to go to level two anger. You don't you can skip right over that and go right to how can I just cope?

00;35;16;25 - 00;35;39;03
Speaker 3
What are the options to just rationalize the more love and compassion you can give yourself in that and acknowledge and validate the fact that you are in a level one hole that is you stepping on that level for bridge, my friend, that is where you will start to ask yourself the compassion and curious questions of how to get yourself to see where there is a win.

00;35;40;20 - 00;35;51;20
Speaker 3
And the more you can see the circumstance that you're in and there's a gift of it, this is this is growing and learning every time.

00;35;51;20 - 00;36;15;21
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's beautiful. Such recognition of, again, you know, how to lean into this work as we're as we're learning. Scott, before we have a call to action, maybe for our listeners, anything else that you have to add to our conversation today around this.

00;36;16;23 - 00;36;55;13
Speaker 2
Now I just think for a lot of leaders too is the fact that being willing to accept that you need to be constantly learning and the fact that leaning into things like energy leadership, especially interesting for me when I got my score right. So I had this perception that I was a one way and it wasn't true and it was it was interesting to think that maybe, maybe as we step in the next podcast, we can talk about like your best experience and level seven.

00;36;55;13 - 00;37;31;26
Speaker 2
Like, just like what would that feel like for people? What would that, what would that be like? Because I think, unfortunately, lot of us have grown up inside of organizations and quite frankly, maybe we've exhibited our own behavior in level one level, too. So that's very common. So as leaders, how do we teach and coach people how to ask questions to people, to lift them up and to alter and change that is and I know we've we were running long, but I think what what you talk about, Karen, too, is acceptance and acceptance.

00;37;31;26 - 00;37;53;21
Speaker 2
And my opinion is the birth place of gratitude, because I can admit I'm a jerk. I can admit I'm a victim. I can admit I'm a lot of things. But until I until I accept that nothing changes. And I hate to Dr. Phil this thing, but you know how you used to say, how's that working for you?

00;37;53;21 - 00;37;54;15
Speaker 3
My favorite.

00;37;54;25 - 00;37;55;16
Speaker 2
I know I love.

00;37;55;17 - 00;37;56;09
Speaker 3
Favorite line.

00;37;56;21 - 00;38;15;11
Speaker 2
Because when people are admitting all these things, it's like, how's that working for you? Yeah. And, and I think the most powerful thing I love to ask people in that and you got to be very careful in regards to that. Say who you ask. That, too, is what powers that giving you. And they'll be like none. I'm like, that's that's a lie.

00;38;15;17 - 00;38;39;13
Speaker 2
Yeah. You wouldn't do it if it didn't give you power somewhere. Well, that's not true. Like, well, think about it. Think about it. You wouldn't act out. You wouldn't do this if he didn't give you something. You didn't get paid back. How are you getting paid back in that action? Why not getting paid back? I'm like now like you are getting paid back, otherwise you wouldn't act that way.

00;38;39;13 - 00;38;40;05
Speaker 2
Does that make sense?

00;38;40;05 - 00;38;44;02
Speaker 3
Yeah, absolutely. We are going to dove into this. This is going to be exciting.

00;38;44;02 - 00;38;47;23
Speaker 2
Yeah. So that's really kind of cool stats to join us next time, right?

00;38;48;11 - 00;39;06;29
Speaker 1
Yeah. And I and I think what I would call, you know, as Scott says, let's go inside. Right. It's you know, and because I just want to add to our podcast, you're probably 2 hours long. I just want to add that it goes back and this is awful what Scott was saying. It is all about starting with us, right?

00;39;06;29 - 00;39;25;16
Speaker 1
Starting it with instead of hearing this and thinking about Joe or Sally, you know, what is this about us? And the other thing that I'll say and Scott mentioned this as far as, you know, taking the time to do these kind of things and learn these kind of things and use these kind of tools. Give yourself I've been saying this a lot lately, right?

00;39;25;16 - 00;39;51;18
Speaker 1
This space and grace that you need for you in order to dove deep into who are you really and who are you really meant to be? Because without yourself giving those, you know, without you giving yourself that space and grace, you're not going to have the opportunity to learn and understand more about you so you can make a bigger difference in the world and you matter.

00;39;52;08 - 00;40;14;28
Speaker 1
So please do that. So what we would ask you to do, if you so choose right, is take time to think about and we're going to explain these more. But as we've described them so far, how do these how do you show up in these levels or how do they show up for you and in what situations and how might this be beneficial for you?

00;40;15;27 - 00;40;29;03
Speaker 1
So in the meantime, thank you and thank you, Scott, by the way, for being so vulnerable and transparent and sharing your stories. Thank you for caring for everything that you add. And we'll see you next time.